Re: Schöffe II

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "t0lgsoo1" <guestuser.0x9357@...> wrote:

>
> >Sounds like what the Russians do.
> >Influence of the former Cyrillic spelling?
>
> Not at all. Only because they aren't accustomed to ö and ü.
> (Whether Russians write /ju/ instead of ü and /jo/ instead
> of ö, this is known only by those who are in command of
> Russian.)

I'm not, but they do.
Goethe
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D1%91%D1%82%D0%B5,_%D0%98%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD_%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%84%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3_%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%BD
München
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D1%8E%D0%BD%D1%85%D0%B5%D0%BD

>
> >Interesting. Is <çoban> analyzable in Turkic as root + suffix?
>
> I don't know. And I don't know whether this is a Turkic word
> or of another origin (Iranian??). I only know it is pan-Turkic.
> (Do post this question on sci.lang; Turkologues there might
> know the answer.)
>
> >The short version of what Grimm says, yes. Is that <saphan>
> >for real or a typo (I was looking for Å¡/s alternation)?
>
> No, not a typo.

Interesting. I think there was another case of s- in Grimm.

>
> >BTW, here's Turkic for "slave":
> >http://tinyurl.com/62b39dx
> >Proto-Turkic *Kul, *kȫle and *K(i)aĺ-
>
> In modern Turkish _köle_. Are these Turkic _kul/köl(e)_ akin
> to _coolie_ < Hind. _kuli_?

Related. Borrowed into English from Urdu, which borrowed it from Turkic, it seems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie#Etymology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghilman
from Turkic too?

> >Hm! Cf
> >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66821
>
> What if all these _khlape/khlop_ have something in common
> with German _Knappe_ + _Knabe_ (and, therefore, with
> Engl. _knave_)?

Grimm thinks so.

http://urts55.uni-trier.de:8080/Projekte/WBB2009/DWB/wbgui_py?lemid=GA00001
'd) von der herkunft des wortes läszt sich nur sagen, dasz es, wie knecht, doch wol auf die wurzel zurückgeht, die lat. gr. als gen erscheint, bei uns in kind (s. d. I, d), aber in ihrer zweiten gestaltung, wie in lat. gnatus (natus), gr. γνήσιος, goth. knôds genus, s. weiter unter können und Diefenbach goth. wb. 2, 406. 462, wo auch mögliche verwandtschaften der östlichen sprachen angezogen sind (vgl. besonders altslav. chlap servus, lith. klápas puer); bedeutsam ist namentlich altkelt. gnabat filius, natus, s. DWB knabatz 2. '


One thing it has in common is the strange vacillation -p-/-b- in auslaut:
'diese doppelte gestaltung im auslaut ist dem worte eigen von alters her, merkwürdig aber durch ihre die regel kreuzende vertheilung.'

Or were you thinking of something to do with Knaan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knaanic


Torsten