Re: Tudrus

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> > > When was the last mentioning of the Bastarnian population?
> > > AFAIK during Attila's period. Afterwards it must be
> > > assimilated into other Germanic or German populations.
> >
> > I was being imprecise. The Bastarnians in Poieneşti-Lukaševka who
> > disappear in mid-1st century BCE according to Crişan were the
> > northern tribes (Atmoni and Sidoni in Strabo)
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastarnae
> > The southern Peucini stayed on longer, as you mention.
> >
> > > But a Germanic population of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd century
> > > to go exactly through the same linguistic transformation
> > > as those Germanic idioms that turned German, yet in
> > > the absence of permanent links with the future German
> > > (diutisk) populations from the 3rd or 5th century until
> > > the 11th century? Methinks this would have been impossible.
> >
> > By that time, the Atmoni and Sidoni would have either been in
> > Germanic-speaking Przeworsk-land
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przeworsk_culture
> > or have left with Ariovistus to invade the land of the Helvetii in
> > what later became southern Germany, ie Swabia and Bavaria.
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastarnae
> Strabo's
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographica (published 9 BCE)
> still mentions the three subtribes Atmoni, Sidoni and Peucini.
> Tacitus'
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book) (published 98 CE)
> knows only the southern tribe of the Peucini.
> 'The Peucini, however, who are sometimes called Bastarnae,...'
> (Germania 46) shows that by then the Atmoni and Sidoni were
> history beyond recollectable memory.

Oops, not quite accurate, he actually mentions the Sitones in the preceding paragraph:
'Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman. So notoriously do they degenerate not only from a state of liberty, but even below a state of bondage. Here end the territories of the Suevians.'
(the Suiones living to the south of the Baltic, that is, according to Pekkanen), but it is clear that he sees them as being one of the peoples making up the Suevi, ie the Przeworsk culture, not as Bastarnians.


Torsten