Re: Tudrus

At 4:49:33 AM on Tuesday, January 11, 2011, Torsten wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <bm.brian@...> wrote:

[...]

>>> More likely seems to me an origin in 'long-vowel verbs',
>>> from a kind of impersonal '4sg' in -i alone, cf Greek
>>> 3sg pherei, cf Dutch draai-, gooi-, Grm dreh-, NW dial
>>> gouw- "turn", "throw", later 'normalized' with a 3sg -t
>>> suffix: draait, gooit.

>> drehen < drāan < *þrōanã; originally Class VII, *þrōanã,
>> *þeþrō, *þeþrōun, *þrōanaz. In German, unlike English,
>> it was transferred to the weak verbs, though a strong
>> ppart. is found as late as MHG.

> Still, the Dutch (and LG, 'dreiht' ibd.) -i needs an
> explanation.

You mean in <draai->? It's simply a different way of
breaking the original hiatus, parallel to the OHG variant
<drājan>.

> I suppose I could match it with the "throng" verb, as I
> did with *sta:-/stand- and *ga:-/gang-. Odd semantics,
> BTW, between Dutch draaien and Enl. throw. Maritime term
> for steering?

No. OE <þrāwan> was 'to turn, twist, curl'; the usual
modern sense is first attested in the late 13th century.
The development isn't clear; possibly the connection is
the turning motion of the arm or a sling when one throws
something.

>>> I'd venture the same origin for Eng. stay.

>> It's a borrowing from French.

> Proposed to be. Dutch staan, Da./Sw. stå are most likely
> related. What's the official story of sway/zwaaien?
> Zwaaien has navigation origins too.

<Sway> in its modern sense dates only from ~1500 and is
quite possibly from LG <swājen> 'to be moved hither and
thither by the wind' or a Dutch reflex thereof.

Brian