Re: Tudrus

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...> wrote:

>
> At 7:54:08 PM on Saturday, January 1, 2011, Rick McCallister
> wrote:
>
> > From: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
>
> >>> ***I've seen lots of popular texts gloss Thiuderich
> >>> "People's King" (vel sim) as Theodoric "Gift of God"
> >>> --esp. the first barbarian king of Italy
>
> >> That's the standard interpretation. also in Wikipedia
> >> There is a suffix *-ri:k in
> >> German Enterich, Da. andrik, Engl. drake (*and- "duck")
>
> No suffix there: the vowel isn't long, and the second
> element is probably a WGmc. *drako or the like, perhaps
> originally an independent word for 'male duck'.

Obviously there is a suffix:
Da. and "duck", andrik "drake"
Grm. Ente "duck", Enterich "drake"
Grm. Taube "pigeon", Täuberich "male pigeon"
http://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?query=andrik&search=S%C3%B8g
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0099.html

(the form anddrake etc shows your *drako can't have originally meant "drake", if it did, the first element could not have served a purpose of specifying further the -drake part and thus have been superfluous, perhaps that's Suolahti's idea too; we should probably proceed from andrake)

cf. also fenrik (appr. staff sergeant)
http://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?query=f%C3%A6ndrik&search=S%C3%B8g


and the vowel of the contemporaneous version of the anthroponymic suffix / second element is also short; do you know contemporaneous attestations of the two suffixes where they differ in vowel length?

> >> Da. skiderik "creep, *sshole" (skide "shit")
> >> Da. fulderik "drunk person" (fuld "drunk")
>
> ODS takes these to be modelled on <drukkendidrik>, from the
> LGer. <Did(e)rik>.

Like I said, the traditional approach is to derive words with this suffix separately. I think that's unjustified.

> >> Dutch vieserik "disgusting person" (vies "dirty")
> >> possibly Gothic Ermanaric(?)
>
> That's a straightforward dithematic name in <-ri:k>.

But the first theme is identical to that of Arminius.

> >> although they are traditionally derived separately from
> >> anthroponyms in *-ri:k). I wonder if Brian knows something
> >> about it?
>
> >> Formed as masc. to Theodora (cf. German Ente/Enterich)?
>
> > In grad school, I was told that Thiuderic meant "People's
> > King, Army King" but that it was glossed as Teodoric based
> > on folk etymology to pass him off as a non-barbarian with
> > a Greek name. But many modern texts do claim that
> > Thiuderic somehow is the same name as Theodoros
>
> Gothic *Þiudareiks (LLat. <Theodoricus>) is pretty clearly
> from *Þiuðo:-ri:kaz and unrelated to the Gk. name.

Unless -ri:k- is a suffix.


Torsten