Re: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

From: Rick McCallister
Message: 66926
Date: 2010-12-04

Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider **Vimarali and **Vimarani

From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 6:29:43 PM
Subject: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

JS Lopes


De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 


But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.
From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

JS Lopes


De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 



From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
wrote:

> Responding to Brian and João:

> Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
> as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
<(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
<Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

Brian

Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)