Res: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

From: Joao S. Lopes
Message: 66934
Date: 2010-12-05

DOCUMENTACIÓN.-1:En los Tumbos de Sobrado - trancriptos por Pilar Loscertales- figura el nombre que dió origen al aquí comentado en cinco documentos: a)el 1-129, del año 942- nos ofrece la forma "Vimaredo".- b) el 1-31, del 28-6-951- nos presenta "Vimaredus".- c) el1-3 del 14-5-952, nos presenta también "VImaredus".- d) el 1-131, del 15-8-10, nos da el topónimo "Vimaredi" y el antropónimo "neptos Vimaredi" .- e) el 1-133 del 22-1-1022, nos vuelve a traer "Vimaredus".
2: En el Tumbo de Samos - transcripto por M. Lucas Alvarez- figuran en el documento 47, dos grafías: a) "Vimaredo", de villa Astragis; y b) "Vimeredo" (probable errata, en vez de "Vimaredo").
3: Piel-Kremer- en "Hispano gotiches Namenbuch" (Heilderberg-1976)- nos transmite entre otras las siguientes grafías documentales: a)como antropónimos: "Vimaredo" del año 760; "Wimaredo", obispo de Lugo en 811; "Guimareo" en las "Inquisitiones" portuguesas del 1258.- b)como topónimos: los documentados en el actual Portugal- pero que entonces eran de Galicia- "Vimaredi/Vimarei" de donde el "Guimarei" en la zona bracadense.
PERVIVENCIA.-1: De la forma "Vimaredu", pervive el actual "Guimareu" que es una aldea del municipio de Cee (A Coruña)
2: De la forma del genitivo "Vimaredi" (= popsesión "de Vimaredo")proceden los cinco "Guimarey" reseñados en el nomenclátor del 1960: a) el lugar así llamado en el municipio de Cuntis (Pontevedra).- b)otro lugar en Monterrey (Ourense).-c)una aldea en Outes (A Coruña)y d)don aldeas en la provincia de Lugo (en Friol y en Neira de Xusá).

Source:
http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=20272

De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 22:34:54
Assunto: Re: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider **Vimarali and **Vimarani

From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 6:29:43 PM
Subject: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

JS Lopes


De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 


But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.
From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

JS Lopes


De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 



From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

 

At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
wrote:

> Responding to Brian and João:

> Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
> as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
<(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
<Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

Brian

Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)