From: stlatos
Message: 66817
Date: 2010-10-26
>There are indeed various types of free variation (without even getting into the dif. between that affecting single segments and clusters, etc.), for example that between phonemes, that between phones, and that within the area of phonetic space of one phone. Don't bring up a term with multiple meanings for what I said that I have not used and expect me to abide by all meanings of that term instead of by the meaning equivalent to what I said. The exact meaning of the term has varied with linguists (the dict. I looked in didn't even mention the last, and even the terms 'phone' and 'phonetic' have various meanings (including "characterized by an abundance of detail beyond that required for strictly linguistic purposes", which is most relevant to your argument); with different usage, even the term conditioned free variation can be used (for example, if /i/ and /e/ exist as phonemes in most env. but exhibit complete variation after y, or before /xY/ in a syl., etc.)).
> > All free variation results from an opt. change,
>
> Wrong. Free variation exists as to whether aspiration lasts 120 milliseconds or 100 milliseconds, whether a trill has three or four vibrations, whether voicing is tense or lax, how front a velar is exactly when before a front vowel, how labial /u/ is exactly, and so on. None of these represents any sort of a systematic "change". Phonemes are abstractions covering an *area* of phonetic space. "Free variation" is what we call it when one language's area corresponding to phoneme X covers an area corresponding to phonemes Y and Z in some other language.
>
> (This tends to be the case especially when the 2nd language is one of those the IPA was originally based on. Contrasts like tense voice do not exist in them so we usually do not speak of things like "French has free variation between tense and modal voice", altho it would be entirely justified.)
>
> Apparently you think that there also exists a second type of "free variation"
>