Re: Ktistai

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@> wrote:
> >
> > Am 09.10.2010 12:50, schrieb Torsten:
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_language
> > > http://groznijat.tripod.com/thrac/thrac_3.html
> > > 'ktístai "Thracians, living in celibacy; monks" (Strab.).
> > > There is no convincing etymology.'
> > >
> > > Why has no one tried connecting it to
> > > Slavic *čist-/čest- "pure, clean; cleanse"?

...

>

Detschew
Die thrakischen Sprachreste:

κτίσται ehelos lebende Thraker [Thracians living unmarried].
- Strab. 7,3,3: λέγει δ`ε το`υς Μυσο`υς ´ο Ποσειδώνιος κα`ι `εμψύχων `απέχεσθαι κατ` ε`υσέβειαν, δι`α δ`ε του^το κα`ι θρεμμάτων• μέλιτι δ`ε χρη~σθαι κα`ι γάλακτι και τυρω,~ ζω~ντας καθ` ´ησυχίαν, δι`α δ`ε του~το καλει~σθαι θεοσεβει~ς τε και καπ­νοβάτας• ε`ι~ναι δέ τινας τω~ν Θρα,κω~ν ο´ί χωρ`ις γυναικ`ος ζωσιν, ´ο`υς κτίστας καλει~σθαι, `ανιερω~σθαί τε δι`α τιμ`ην κα`ι μετ`α `αδείας ζη~ν.
"Poseidonius goes on to say of the Mysians that in accordance with their religion they abstain from eating any living thing, and therefore from their flocks as well; and that they use as food honey and milk and cheese, living a peaceable life, and for this reason are called both "god-fearing" and "capnobatae"; and there are some of the Thracians who live apart from woman-kind; these are called "Ctistae," and because of the honour in which they are held, have been dedicated to the gods and live with freedom from every fear"
Der Versuch Ficks, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, die Glosse mit lit. skaistás „hell", abg. čistъ „rein" zu verbinden, läßt sich sprachlich nicht rechtfertigen. Es kommt noch hinzu, daß aus dem Kontext die Bedeutung „die (von dem Umgang mit Frauen) Getrennten, Geschiedenen" zu erwarten wäre.
[Fick's attempt, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, to connect the gloss with Lith. skaistás "clear", OBg. čistъ "clean, pure", cannot be justified linguistically. Besides that, from the context one would expect the sense „those that are separated (from dealing with women)".


But we have
Rick Derksen
Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Inherited Lexicon

*cěstiti v.
CS OCS cěstiti 'castrate'; RuCS cěstiti 'clean'
S Sln. céstiti 'castrate, (listje) tear off'

BSl. *(s)koi?d-

B
Lith. skaistùs 3/4 'bright';
Latv. skai~sts 'beautiful, pretty'

PIE *(s)koid-



Fortunately, if we assume the word has to do with forestry, and covers the process of debranching, debarking and splitting into planks (with wedges), such a sense can reconstructed for the original word, cf. the sense "split" of Lat. scindo.




So, thus:
*(p)kYeN- "process (de-twig, de-branch, de-bark, split) a log"

Matches too.


Torsten