Vanr (was: Re: [tied] Áss etc.)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, johnvertical@... wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" wrote:
> > As to this particular word, its origin likely separates it from the explanation above for native words (only in the historical sense), since it's likely borrowed from a non-Gmc language spoken by those who worshipped Ing, etc., before. I'd say con. w Väinämöinen; the sky god * waNyámö? > waN?ámöy > waN?áway > wanáway dis> wanáy [then ana. as if plural > 'gods of the _'].
>
> That's an interesting idea, tho your derivation doesn't really need any m-deleting steps (the *-mo is suffixal, cf. the variant _Väinö_).

It is not a suffix, judging by its etymology (without which I wouldn't have any reason to suggest a form like * waNyámö? ); the change is opt. m > w then dissimilation w-w>0.

>

Juggling palatalization isn't required either: Estonian has a more similar form _Vanemuine_, reshaped by association to _vana_ "old".

>

First, this borrowing occurred long ago, before borrowing > FU (if, as likely, it was borrowed), so later analogy in one branch doesn't affect it.

Second, this "juggling" or metathesis occurred all the time, so since it is obvious in many words, trying to avoid it in others in which it is not so obvious provides no benefit.

Consider a simple and easily seen one:

Ve:linas \ Ve:lenas (god who grants powers; associated w underworld/w/swamps/r/lakes) OLith; Velnias Lith;

Then, in nagaimbi Baibai; kami 'sky/heaven' Fas; mway Kwomtari; these closely related l. show at least one obvious set of cognates, but met. is required (not only to explain the -i/0- < -y- in nagaimbi / kami ) :

*
waRWúÑq'ya
maRWúÑq'ya
maBúÑq'ya
maBúNq'ya
maBáNq'yu
maBáNq'yü
maBáNq'yi
maBánq'yi
anq'ámBiy
naq'áymBi
nagaimbi Baibai;

*
anq'ámBiy
nq'ámBiy
nq'ámwiy
q'ámwiy
q'ámiy
kami Fas;

*
q'ámwiy
?ámwiy
?imwáy
imwáy
mway Kwomtari;

>
> (Also, he wasn't a sky god, you're thinking of Ilmarinen.)
>

I know who I'm thinking of, and I think there's plenty of evidence to support me.