Re: New way of getting Goth-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "t0lgs001" <st.9eor9e@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> >Are you sure? Above, you considered a d/l alternation in assigning
> >Turk etc kula etc to the 'cot' words, so why not d/r?
>
> But only because of that Udmurt kwala did _kVlV_ occur to my
> mind (and Turkic and Old Iranian idioms AFAIK indeed were
> nextdoor neighbors to Udmurt). (Yet they might be unrelated,
> I don't know.)

OK.

> >Cf.
> >http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/kr.html
>
> Indeed, most of the Hungarian K-R- and G-R- words I am aware of
> fit most of those G-R- & K-R- words listed on your page. As of G-L-
> & K-L- I don't know. (e.g. a stark contrast to me Hebrew, Aramaic,
> Amharic G-L- worts for "wheel" and "roll" versus Hungarian K-R-:
> kerék ['kaere:k] "wheel", kerek- "round, circle-like, ring-like",
> karika "circle, loop, round, ring". (I have to mention that I don't
> know whether these Hungarian K-R- words meaning "circle; ring;
> loop; enclosure" are of Ugric origin or rather of Old Iranian
> origin. Hungarian basic and old vocabulary has a significant number
> ofold Iranianisms (including words for "God"), along with old
> Turkic and slavic lexemes.)

Check also the "twist" entry here
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/6627
of posited Nostratic roots from Bomhard's
Indo-European and the Nostratic Hypothesis.

> >Again, can't rule it out. But we have to remember that we are
> >dealing with a Wanderwort.
>
> Brought to Europe by primeval "Indoeuropeans" or later on by
> people who had gotten it as a loanword from languages in Asia?

Wörter und Sachen. Arrived as loan with the idea of a wheel and of an enclosure, bounced back and forth with specialization of that idea.

> OTOH (as of Gdansk & Gdynia), if Gdansk has nothing to do with
> Goths, Gotland (the isle) has, hasn't it?

Erh, but I said exactly the opposite, namely that it did.

> (maps.google.com show me that a Goth leaving Gotland for
> calling in on "next-door" neighbors would visit these addresses
> first (before making a sightseing tour to see the palaces of the
> caesars and Trastevere :)):

> Kalmar, Karlskrona, Koszalin, Slupsk, Gdynia, Gdansk,
> Kaliningrad, Klaipeda, Liepaja, Riga (thus, Gdansk lies just
> in the middle of this West-South-West, South, South-East-East
> "fan").

And from Östergötland, Västergötland, Jutland? If *Kud- meant "hut" or "home", then the name of the Goths meant "the aboriginals", and there is no need to posit a cruise from Gotland.

> --
> Waren die Goten die "Guten"? So wie
> die Langobarden die "Langbärtigen" und

Here's my take on 'Langobard'
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60000

Here's how Odin named them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langobard
'The Winnili were young and brave and refused to pay tribute, saying "It is better to maintain liberty by arms than to stain it by the payment of tribute." The Vandals prepared for war and consulted Godan (the god Odin), who answered that he would give the victory to those whom he would see first at sunrise. The Winnili were fewer in number and Gambara sought help from Frea (the goddess Frigg), who advised that all Winnili women should tie their hair in front of their faces like beards and march in line with their husbands. So it came that Godan spotted the Winnili first, and asked, "Who are these long-beards?" and Frea replied, "My lord, thou hast given them the name, now give them also the victory." From that moment onwards, the Winnili were known as the Langobards (Latinised and Italianised as Lombards).'

in my interpretation a pun on their supposed origin way out in the sticks on the platteland and on their Venetic pronunciation of Germanic /w/ as /b/ or /g/ (hardening/Verschärfung).
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/57554
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59978

> die Franken "die Franken" (damals: "die Kühnen")?

Torsten