From: Torsten
Message: 66193
Date: 2010-06-09
>For *xarja-gist- -> *xarja-Gist -> (x)ario-wist to happen in the mouth of a Gallic-speaker, there should have been lenition in Gaulish. This
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This one you won't like:
> > > >
> > > > An attempt on an etymology foe Ariovist:
> > > >
> > > > PGmc. *xarja-gastiz ->
> > > > Suebian *xérj&Gest- ->
> > > > through an Gaulish-Latin interpreter (Ariovist spoke
> > > > Gaulish, Caesar spoke no Gaulish)
>
> In 'Warist, Werstine und Werstein' Kuhn tries to show that many
> Germanic names in ending in -stein/-steen/-sta:n/-sten are
> reinterpretations of pre- and non-Germanic names in ending in -st-,
> and that this is shown in the sets of matching -st/-stein etc of
> personal names, etnonyms and toponyms:
> "
> I now name these pairs or groups of names.
> [sources left out of text]
>
> OE. Ade-sta:n : OS. Addasta,
> further the toponyms Addestan-stidi/Addestondorp and Adestessen;
>
> ODu. Ale-stein/Al-ste:n ...;
>
> OE. Al-/Æl-/El-sta:n : Fries. Allust, Alste, Elst,
> further the toponym Alsten-rode and many of the type
> Alaste/Alisti.. ;
>
> ODu. Adel-stein, OE Æþel-sta:n : altndd. Adalusta;
>
> OHG Alb-stein, OE Ælf-sta:n : OFrank. Albust, Fries. Alvest;
>
> OHG OS Brun-stein : OLG Brunist,
> futher the toponym Brunistes-husun and Brunest-heim;
>
> OE Ecg-sta:n : OHG Eggusta, Gr. Agastas,
> further the toponym type Agasta/Agista ... ;
>
> OS Heri-ste:n : Lat. Caristus and Caristanus,
> further th toponym Heristi ...;
>
> OHG Hruod-stein, OS Hröd-ste:n : OS Rothest/Rodest ... ;
>
> OE Hu:n-sta:n : WFrank. Hunesta;
>
> OE Leof-sta:n : OHG Liebesta, OE Leofusta;
>
> OHG Mein-stein : OS Meinhist ...
> plus Fries. Meinste, Menst ...;
>
> Burg. Raene-stanus/Rai-stagnus ... : Fries. Reinist/Reinst,
> further the toponym Regenstenc-husen;
>
> OHG Remi-/Rimi-stein, Burg. Remi-stagnus ... :
> Remistus und Remisto ... and Fries. Remste,
> further the toponyms Rimisten-rein and Rimstingen;
>
> OHG Sigi-stein, OE Sige-sta:n : OGmc. Segestes and MDu. Sigest ... ,
> further the toponym Segeste and relatives ... ;
>
> ODa. War-stein ... , OE. War-/Wer-sta:n : Varistus ... and
> MDu. Werest/Verest ...,
> further many toponyms ... .
>
> ...
> ...
> To corrobsorate this I have to digress shortly into the history of
> personal names with st-suffix. On the continent they enjoyed more
> importance than the ones on -stein. In the North, however, where
> these latter were rather frequent, the former are not documented,
> and also in England there are only a few tangible ones. Without
> support in the genuine vocabulary seem only Ribrost and Unust, but
> those two might have been Celts. The well-known Hengest is a native
> appellative and only semi-legendary. To my knowledge there remains
> only Leofusta, which might or should be understood as superlative
> to leof "dear", and Fregist/Frigist which seems to contain OE gist
> "guest", although this is very rare in the old English personal
> names. Among the few -gist names I noticed there are
> Friþe-/Fryþe-gist which could be reshaped from Frigist, and
> Ere-gist, with a completely isolated first element.
> This might also be an old -st formation, with close relatives in a
> Phryg. Argistes and the German toponym Argeste/Ergeste (now Ergste
> ...)...
> "
>
> Oh. Ere-gist ? Completely isolated. If this is the one, then
> Ariovistus < Eregistaz/Arjagistaz might have had a pre-Germanic, but
> IE name (gist- < *ghest- ?). Or it might have been reformed from
> Argest-?
>
>
> > > ****GK: Ariovist could not have had a German-Latin
> > > interpreter? Just wondering.****
> >
> >
> > This is the first Germanic-Roman encounter recorded. Where would a
> > Latin-Germanic interpreter then have acquired his second language?
> > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at all, and Ariovistus
> > is the first one of them he sees.
> >
>
> DBG I, 47
> 'It seemed [therefore] most proper to send to him Gaius Valerius
> Procillus, the son of Gaius Valerius Caburus, a young man of the
> highest courage and accomplishments (whose father had been presented
> with the freedom of the city by Gaius Valerius Flaccus), both on
> account of his fidelity and on account of his knowledge of the
> Gallic
> language which Ariovistus, by long practice, now spoke fluently; and
> because in his case the Germans would have no motive for committing
> violence; and [as his colleague] Marcus Mettius, who had shared the
> hospitality of Ariovistus.'
>
> This is the only time Caesar communicates with Ariovistus, but
> it seems to implicate that the way to do it was in the Gallic
> language.
>
>