Re: Uralic Loanwords in Germanic

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, johnvertical@... wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, johnvertical@ wrote:

< *so:-ma: is certainly not "nearly certain" in the sense of being the accepted option, nor in the sense of being problemless (no regular process based on this etymology explains the final *-i, and Finland Proper is not particularly swampy).

> > The stem is Suoma-, and several Finnish words ending in -i have stems with -a- (this is because of an old nom -y


> No, words from *-Vj have stems with -i- (but may derive from a root in -a, which I suppose you meant).

That's not what I meant. The nom. of a-stems was -a-j, the acc. -a-m, etc. For example, all words ending in -mpi '-er' have stems in -mpa-. Analogy got rid of the alt. in most words (in either direction). The analogy you suggest in suoma-lainen seems unlikely considering my explanation exists and explains more words (-aj > -ej > -e; analogy in most stems to all-a or all-e, -e > -i). Also, some Finnish words in -i correspond to other Uralic words that are a-stems (in Hungarian, etc.); since there's no reason for i > a anywhere in Hungarian, as far as I know, and there is ev. for i \ a-alt. in Finnish, I stand by my explanation.

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> > (corresponding to Old Japanese words in -e with compounds in -a-)).
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> Are you bringing this up as a parallel or as some sort of a Ural-Altaic scenario?

Broader than that.

> > The 'fenland' meaning explains the names in Gmc.
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> An original exact correspondence between "Suomi" and "Finland" is not required.

I didn't say it was, but since suoma-lainen means 'Finnlander' and suo-maa-lainen would mean 'fenlander', I'm not willing to accept coincidence.

>

("Finn" appears quite a bit more widely than in this compound, which also makes me think "fen" is not correct here.)

>

How is that ev. either way? If the Gmc languages acquired a calque of *soo-maa at a time when its meaning hadn't been obscured by sound changes, calling a place 'fenland' and its inh. 'fenlanders' and (by analogy after the source and meaning were forgotten) 'fens' wouldn't be odd.