Re: Istriot-Dalmatian --adstratal to Albanian?

From: Rick McCallister
Message: 65578
Date: 2010-01-02

My impression is that Dalmatian looks closer to Italian than to Romanian but it's well known that Italian and Venetian were prestige languages and so, may have had an adstratal relationship on Dalmatian. 
Dalmatian has /kt/ > /pt/ like Romanian and it has palatalization before /i/ but not before /e/. This latter trait seems very conservative.
Why no palatalization with /e/? Any ideas? My only guess is that <e> changed from /e/ to something closer to /a/ or /@/.
Brian --you didn't mention Istriot as part of Dalmatian. Where do you, and everyone else, place it?


From: Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 7:58:56 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Istriot-Dalmatian --adstratal to Albanian?

 

Rick McCallister schrieb:

> Is it possible that some Romance forms in Albanian are from Dalmatian?

hard to say since the vocalism of Dalmatian ( I mean here specialy a
strange diphtongation of the words) won't speak for Dalmatian as source
for Albanian. Yet, it can be there are some loans from Dalmatian as well.

> There is a lot of evidence of Romanian adstrate in Albanian and it is
> postulated that Albanian was originally spoken much closer to the Danube
> than present.

well, there are other views which postulate the ProtoRomanians somewhere
in the heart of Balcans thus not so close to Danube. Actually this is
a never ending story with the place where ProtoAlbanians or
ProtoRomanians have been located thus each atempt to speak about will
probably just reopen such discussions. As for the common layers
Albano-Romanians, there is still a lot to do in order to fix up all the
interesting points.

> But there seem to be several levels of Romance adstrate in Albanian.

there are for sure at least 2 Latin levels of loans and at least one
Romance layer of loans in Albanian.

> The first known historical mention of Albanian was in Dalmatian.
> How far east was Dalmatian spoken? Is it likely that before the Slavic
> invasions that Dalmatian and Romanian were contiguous?

The slavs made a break in the CommonRomanian unity, testimony of it
beeing the Aromanian dialects which have very few slavic loans. Yet,
these dialects are in fact one and the same langauge with DacoRomanian,
these are not other langauges. Dalmatian cannot be considered as beeing
a dialect of Romanian. In fact, the Dalmatian language looks more
"italic" to me, it appears to be more italian as romanian. At least this
is the feeling I got comparing these languages.

Alex