Re: Charudes - Croatians

From: Torsten
Message: 65407
Date: 2009-11-11

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "gknysh" <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
>
> > > This is what Gol/a,b has to say in The origins of the Slavs
> > > about the origin of the etnonym of the Croatians
>
> > > My contention is that PSl. *XUrvat- // *Xorvat- (a consonantal
> > > stem!) was derived from a common noun *xUrvU // *xorvU 'armor'
> > > (primarily 'horn-armor'), which should be treated as a
> > > prehistorical loanword from Germc. *hurwa- // *harwa-,
>
> > > We can even hypothesize that the borrowing of the Germc.
> > > *hurwa- 'horn-armor' took place somewhere in the sub-Carpathian
> > > region, and that its source was the PGermc. dialect of the
> > > Bastarnians, who dwelt along the eastern Carpathians in the
> > > first to third centuries A.D.
>
> ****GK: The Bastarnians disappear from the area some two hundred years before the arrival of the Slavs.****
>
>
> > Note that this horn-armor is attributed to the Sarmatians by
> > Ammianus Marcellinus.
>
> ***GK: The Slavs contacted Sarmatians independently. There is no
> reason why they should have borrowed this term from Bastarnians or
> any other Germanic folk. OTOH a borrowing in Avar times is
> historically much more plausible, esp. since Golomb's linguistic
> analyses are weak and unconvincing, and his historical hypothesis
> simply incompetent.****
> >
> > > Now this unknown Germanic language would have been the
> > > para-Germanic Bastarnian. If true, those Croatians were in
> > > contact with Germanic-speakers early. So why shouldn't they be
> > > Ariovistus' Charudes?
> > >
> > > One thing puzzled me about the story of Ariovistus giving away
> > > free land to some tribe who had done nothing to win it.
> > > Perhaps they were just too lazy to work the land and let
> > > Charudes/Croatians colonize the land for them, in return for
> > > their products?
>
> ****GK: As long as Golomb's silly hypothesis is around, why not
> try something even sillier?****
> >
> > Another attempt at the name:
> > Wortschatz der germanischen Spracheinheit
> > 'krabban m. Krebs, Krabbe.
> > an. krabbi m. Krabbe;
> > ags. crabba m. (engl. crab),
> > nnd. krabbe.
> > Dazu
> > ahd. chrepaz(o), crebiz,
> > mhd. krebez, krebz,
> > nhd. Krebs, mnd. krevet, kreft.
> > Aus krabita(n).
> > Vgl. von der Nebenwurzel (s)kar(a)b
> > gr. kárabos Krebs, Käfer und
> > *skarabaios (lat. scarabaeus) Käfer.'
> >
> > If this is NWBlock, *xraBi-þ- would have been the corresponding
> > Germanic word. Calling scale armor clad people lobsters makes
> > sense.
>
> ****GK: Especially since there is no "Popperian" counter-proof to
> the intensifying downward spiral of sillinesses.****
> >
> >

According to this compendium of lingustic reasoning of the last two hundred years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gwXJsWHupg
*xurvat- has a sort of woody quality about it, whereas 'silly' (eeeek!) is dreadfully tinny (cf. 'litterbin').


Torsten