From: johnvertical@...
Message: 65326
Date: 2009-10-29
> > > http://tinyurl.com/yjcsxkkHow new exactly? Baltic-Finnic is not original in the area either. I've indeed seen it proposed that Baltic Finnic originally expanded on a Baltic substrate (south of the Gulf of Finland, that is).
> > > Danish original
> > > http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap22-1-1.html
> >
> > He writes:
> >
> > I Kalevala har Ukko heitet "ylijumala", der i dag
> > oversættes til "God of Mercy/Lykkens Gud", men oprindeligt
> > må have haft betydningen "Julens Herre", jvf. julemandens
> > navn "Ýlir" i Norge/Island i 900 tallet e.Kr.
> >
> > But <ylijumala> is 'high god' (<yli> 'over, above; more
> > than', <jumala> 'god'). In fact, Václav Blaz^ek thinks that
> > the name <Ukko> itself is an adaptation of Baltic *uka- >
> > Prussian <ucka-> 'prefix expressing the superlative' (as in
> > <ucka-kuslaisin> 'weakest'): the first god of the Prussian
> > pantheon is in record as <Occopirmus> 'Saturnus' 1530,
> > <Ockopirmus> 'der erste Gott Himmels vnd Gestirnes' (16th
> > cent.), and <Occopirnum> 'deum coeli et terrae' 1563. He
> > concludes: 'It is generally accepted that the compound
> > *Uka-pirmas meant "most first"'.
>
> But where does that leave Öku-Þor then?
> And on that standard assumption of Baltic Finnic loans from Baltic:
> don't forget that Baltic is now considered a newcomer to the Baltic
> which makes a common 'North European' substrate more likely asJust as with Germanic, plenty of the loans to Finnic are from the inherited Baltic lexicon, so direct contacts between the two are needed (be it in the Baltic region or further east). So direct contacts with Finnic and any substrates to Baltic may still not be necessary.
> donor.