RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/15/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> From: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
> Subject: RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 7:15 PM
>
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "bmscotttg" <BMScott@ > wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ > wrote:
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@... s.com, "caotope" <johnvertical@ > wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> Khanty is spoken a few thousands of kilometers away from the
> > >> Germanic hartlands. I don't buy the idea that pre-IE/Uralic
> > >> northern Europe/Siberia spoke only one language.
> >
> > > Because?
> >
> > Because languages change over time, and vast distances imply
> > considerable temporal differentiation.
>
> Kuhn's ar-/ur- language is characterized by that alternation, the
> apa-/upe- "stream" alternation he tries to distribute
> geographically (apa- west, upe- east); Schrijver's definition of
> his geminate and bird name languages implies a wide range of
> variation in auslaut and root vowel. Individual languages may hide
> behind this. They are not to be taken more literally as a single
> language than Krahe's Old European.
> > [...]
> >
> > > But the languages around them swarm with lookalikes which must
> > > be ultimately related, [...]
> >
> > An article of faith, apparently.
> ??
> Pokorny
> pei(&)-, pi(:)- ,fett sein, strotzen';
> pei-tu-, poi-tu-, pi(:)-tu- ,Fett, Saft, Trank',
> pi-k- ,Pech', pi:-mo- ,fett',
> pi:-w-er-/-en- ,Fett, fett',
> poi-wa: (,fette) Wiese';
> poi-men- ,Muttermilch' ,
> pi-pi-us-i: ,Milch habend'.

> ***R Given that this word looks a lot like the IE word for "drink";
> is it possible that the IE word for "drink" originally referred to
> imbibing frothy and fatty beverages such as milk and beer, as
> opposed to water?

Actually the way I think they are connected is by the 'fat' land on both sides of the river. But you may be right.

>
> UEW
> pije- 2 'melken' FU
> ? [Finn. piimä 'dicke Sauermilch';
> est.piim (Gen.piima) 'Milch'] |
> ? ung. fej- 'melken'.
> < ? uriran.: vgl. aw. paiio:- 'Milch', pae:man-
> 'Muttermilch' .
>
>
> Die Etymologie ist nur dann zu akzeptieren, wenn das Element
> mä in finn. piimä ein deverb. Nominalsuffix darstellt, und pii-
> zudem ein Verb mit der Bedeutung 'melken' war.
>
> Ung. Wort s. noch unter *päð'3- 'melken' FU.
>
> päð'3- 'melken' FU
> ? Mord. E M ped´a- 'seihen; melken (E)' |
> ? ung. fej- 'melken'.
> < ? uriran.: vgl. aw. paiio:- 'Milch'.
>
> Die Etymologie ist nur dann akzeptabel, wenn das mord. d´ auf FU
> *ð' und nicht auf *t zurückgeht. Das Wort (JE) M pit´e- 'szúr [o:
> szü´r]; seihen' scheint eher auf ein ursprüngliches *t hinzuweisen.
>
> Das ung. Wort s. noch unter *pije- 'melken' FU.
>
> pektä- 'buttern, Butter machen' FW
> ...
>
> What more do you want?

Torsten