RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> [...]
>
> Kuhn
> Anlautend p- im Germanischen
>
> 'Auf dies letzte muß ich etwas eingehn, da es auch für die Frage des indogermanischen anlautenden b- Bedeutung hat. Es ist ein Teil einer weit über das Germanische hinaus verbreiteten Erweichung alter Tenues. In unserem Stoffe [Germanic words in p-] steht neben
> *plat- „Lappen" *blet (ahd. plez, mhd. blez) und neben
> dän. plet „Fleck" isl. blettr (Nr. 4),
> neben *pikk- (usw.) „picken"
> *bikk- (ags. becca „Picke", mndl. bicken becken = picken pecken, usw., dazu frz. bec „Schnabel" und ital. beccare „hacken" —

This group of words for 'pointed object, beak, pick, peck' etc. is a mess, but I think you and Kuhn do have a "point".

The Romance forms are usually referred to Gallo-Latin <beccus> 'beak', first mentioned by Suetonius, "id valet gallinacei rostrum" (Vitell. 18). However, Sardinian (Logudorese) has <biccu>, which is hard to explain by crossing of *beccu with *picu or whatever. Kuhn himself favored a pre-IE substrate extending up the Atlantic coast into Scandinavia, which I call "West Mediterranean", and if we assume WM *bikk- 'beak' vel sim., borrowed into Gaulish as *bekk-, but shifted into Gmc. *pikk- by the Lautverschiebung, we can explain all these forms. Additionally, Vulgar Latin *picca:re would come from Gmc. (not from a by-form *piccus 'woodpecker' beside <pi:cus>). The Romance situation is complicated by crossing with VL *pi:ca:re extracted from *expi:ca:re 'to shuck grain' (Lat. <exspi:ca:re>, from <spi:ca>) which in turn yielded Rom. *pica, *picu 'pointy object'.

DGK

> Nr. 14), neben *plak- „Platz, Stück Land" *blek (mnd. nd. blek — Nr. 26) und
> neben mnd. premese, nd. pra:m prame „Maulklemme" (u. dgl.) gleichbedeutend mhd. nd. bremse (bei Kiliaen auch bremer — Nr. 27).'