--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "shivkhokra" <shivkhokra@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Shivraj,
> >
> > Re: your post at
> >
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64610
> >
> > I cannot do again all the research made by historians for you.
> > Please take your time and go through the many published books and
> > articles dealing with the topic of Greek, Saka, Parthian, Huna
> > etc. invasions of NW South Asia in the early historical period.
> > You will then see that many of those *foreign* ('mlechchha')
> > invaders, coming from across the Hindu Kush, became settled in
> > India and were soon absorbed into the Hindu caste system as
> > kshatriyas.
>
> I am afraid these are just myths *without any* evidence. I asked
> you for data but you are merely repeating your speculation. Why
> don't you cite evidence that we can analyse?
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/ncm72b
>
> This page has a reference to "fallen kshatriya" but there is no
> primary source given which was utilized by this author. So maybe
> you know and can help us?
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/ntxm2y
>
> Yet again a mention of fallen kshatriya. But author provides no
> primary source that one can check.
Now check the following:
http://tinyurl.com/l4nr2g
"The mleccha bot indigenous and foreigner had acquired political power and a new concept was necessary. It was probably largely to circumvent this problem that the term vratyaksatriya (degenerate ksatriya) became current in describing the origin and status of such peoples. It was maintained that in origin they were of the ksatriya varna and that their degeneration was due to the non-performance of sacred rites, or because of the wrath of the brahmans when they ceased to perform the sacred rites [Note 62: Manu X, 43-4; Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 35.17ff., Vana Parva 48.20ff., Sa. Parva 65.13ff.]. Among the foreign rulers included as vratya ksatriyas were the Yavanas and the Sakas (Scythians)."
http://tinyurl.com/mu3non (and following pages)
"[The Yavanas] were given the status of vratya ksatriyas or degenerate ksatriyas, those who were grudgingly given what was an apology for ksatriya status or those who, although born of ksatriyas had not married women of an equal caste. This was an example of providing a caste ranking for what was originally a ruling class which came from outside caste society."
Cf. Manu X.43-44:
http://tinyurl.com/ldfhah
"By neglecting rites and failing to visit Brahmins, however, these men of Ksatriya birth have gradually reached in the world the level of Sudras -- [among these are the] Yavanas, Sakas, [...] Pahlavas [...]."
The above cited passages from ancient Hindu works prove that the Yavanas (Indo-Greeks), Sakas (Indo-Scythians), and Pahlavas (Indo-Parthians) *were* considered by the brahmins (and, of course, by the rest of the Hindu population at large) as "degenerate" ksatriyas to be equated -- at least for the authots of the Laws of Manu -- to the caste rank of the sudras. This means they *were* cosidered part of the Hindu caste system and, as such, could intermarry with caste Hindus. Many of the rulers of these dynasties patrononized the efflorescence of Sanskrit and the activities of Hindu sects along with those of the Buddhists and the Jainas. But they were originally mlechchhas, i.e. *foreigners*!
> > http://tinyurl.com/nqscd7
>
> This author mentions "Huns married Indian women". But I could not
> find what is he sourcing this data on? He does not cite any
> reference that we can check. Do you know the source for this
> statement?
http://tinyurl.com/nlwqpu
"[About the 9th century CE] a Guhilla king of the Udaipur region proudly married the daughter of a Huna king [Note 107: Atpur Inscription of Saktikumar]. Yet the founder of the Guhilla kingdom claimed to be e brahman."
Moreover, the intermarriage of the Western Ksatrapas (dynasties of Saka origin) with the Satavahanas (a Hindu dynasty) is a notable aspects of their kingdom -- see at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Satraps
And these are only some pieces of information I found through a search on the Web this morning. Now continue you...
Regards,
Francesco