Re: Mid-first century BCE Yazigian prerequisites

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

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> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
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> > GK: Here is another source about burial practices in the area of and near the amber road in the 1rst-4th cs. CE:
> >

http://club-kaup.narod.ru/kaup_r_kylakov_hist_of_prussia_1283_4.html

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> > Neither of them is even considering Sarmatians as an option, even
> > though they lived next door and had been inhumating for centuries,
> > and native sources point out Sarmatians as immigrating into the
> > area.
> >
> > GK: Sarmatian specificities are apparently missing. Cf. article
> > mentioned supra.
> >
>
> I think it's your turn to translate the relevant passages. The ball is in your court.
>
> Torsten
>
> ****GK: My dear Torsten, you're the one who's attempting to find
> evidence for Snorri's fantasized notion of the "Asgard" origins of
> Odin Germania. You're disappointed at the fact that your German
> language sources don't seem to share your prejudices?

I expected the German sources not to mention it as a possibility and my hunch proved true. I pointed out they didn't share yours. They didn't dismiss the idea of a Sarmatian origin, the didn't mention it at all. You must be the interrogator's dream, everything you think is projected onto others. Pure Freud.

> That they don't mention anything at all which could be used as
> "proof" of this nonsense? I don't have to prove anything.

Oh, that's your position now.

> All I need to do is to point you towards relevant sources. If you
> want to waste your time be my guest... I have other projects and my
> time is at a premium. I simply can't waste it in this way.

Bla-bla-bla... no, you can't let this one go.

> I can help you a little bit, but you'll have to find someone else
> to translate more than a few lines of these texts for you. Here's
> the best I can do:

You have no manners.

> Kulakov is interested in what you call "horsey stuff" in the grave
> inventories of the Barbaricum of northern Europe. He mentions a
> source you should consult: the 1994 work by Suzanna Wilbers-Rost
> connected with "the genesis, development, and spread of equine
> headgear with straps in the form of bronze chainlets". She lists
> and catalogues 140 such grave and cenotaph finds from Southern
> Scandinavia to Lithuania in the 1rst-4th c.CE.

That sounds interesting. Does she have a discussion of the corresponding Sarmatian equine headgear?

> In phase B1/B2 there are three concentrations of such popular
> equine headgears in the north European Barbaricum: (1) between Oder
> and Vistula (2) in southeastern Baltia esp. Sambia (3) in the
> western part of the Baltic shore area (esp. Mecklenburg and the
> island of Fiune(?sp). "The earliest finds are in the area of the
> Roman limes on the Danube, in the area of intense Roman-Celtic
> contacts in the first c. CE." Then, (p. 74): "The Celtic material
> of the period 100 BCE-100 CE allows us to establish the specific
> Celtic origin of such equine headgears with bronze chainlets".
> Then: "in the first c. CE this equipment was adopted by the Roman
> cavalry." "We must not forget that in the time frame from the
> epoch of Gaius Marius (105 BCE) through the time of Trajanus'
> Dacian wars (101-107 CE) Rome's auxiliary cavalry was recruited
> from amongst "barbarians"-- Celts and Germanics."

The Yasyges were living on the Pannonian plain from 7 BCE. They were never recruited?

> There are masses
> of references in Kulakov to archaeological literature on the
> presence of such items in the graves of auxiliary Quadi for
> instance. They spread along the Amber route from ca. 51-63 CE.===
> There are further mass references to archaeological literature
> indicating the wave of influence from the south along the amber
> route.

Well, that's what I've been saying all the time.

> Influence which spread throughout the northern babaricum as
> contingents from many more distant Germanic areas participated in
> the "auxiliary" movement in the 1rst and 2nd c. CE. They took their
> acquisitions home and they wound up in their graves. Kulakov then
> mentions two other sources (both by H. Steuer, both published in
> 1998) which deal with the Lubsow gravefinds. The "princely" burials
> are indicative of the high social standing of the defunct in that
> they not only contain the equine headgear specifics Wilber-Rost
> catalogued, but entire horse burials. This is considered a Germanic
> innovation for that time (only applicable to leaders),

The Sarmatians had been doing it all the time.

> and later on will influence the burial practices of the pagan
> Balts. Interestingly, Kulikov notes that these specific headgears
> are not found in the Sarmatian areas of Hungary (they had their own
> types) except on the Sarmat-Quadi borderland ca. 200 CE.****

That's something I need to check on.



Torsten