RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

> > > > > > Also plain "fly":
> > > > > > F. *kärpä- (Livonian käärmi), Mo. karvo, Ma. karme
> > > > > > with an irregular (non-inherited?) cluster.
> > > > >
> > > > > Metathesis k - p?
> > > >
> > > > I would rather consider the possibility that the "(gad)fly"
> > > > words come from a root of the shape #kwarPa- (with #P some
> > > > labial), specifically "fly" from a de-labialized descendant
> > > > #karPa, and "gadfly" from a de-velarized #parPa. By the
> > > > semantics we expect these words to be closer related than the
> > > > "worm" group.
> > > >
> > > > > It would seem we have two suffixes, -k and -m. -k is a NWB
> > > > > suffix too. -m is part of the Caland set.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure if plain -m works. Substrate loans in western
> > > > Uralic commonly include the correspondence of Mordvinic /v/ vs.
> > > > /m/ elsewhere (for example "linden", "fog": F. lehmus, sumu ~
> > > > Mo. levos, suv). However here we have /p/ in Central Finnic.
> > > > Unless the Livonian form with the expected /m/ means that *p is
> > > > a later (onomatopoetic) variant?
> > >
> > > How about my favorite phoneme: /n,W/, the nasal labio-velar?
> >
> > Well if we want to derive them all from a single form. But that
> > doesn't seem to be necessary. This case rather looks like related
> > substrate languages having related, but distinct, invertebrate
> > terminology.
>
> Ends up as the same thing: if we want to know the structure of that language family, we will have to posit proto-forms,. And labial/velar stop/nasal alternation is one of the characteristics of the language of geminates as defined already,

With stops, maybe. Nasals simply seem to assimilate to them.

So what exactly did you want to do with a labiovelar nasal again? This thing needs an outline.

> eg. dup-/dump-/dunk-/duck-.

English "dunk" is supposedly a German loan, cf. "thunk" - and I'm not sure what you are getting at with "dup-".

John Vertical