--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Anders Malmqvist" <malmqvist52@...>
> I too am very Interested in the Iazyges.
> E.g
> http://www.kroraina.com/sarm/jh/index.html
> This has been a great help for me.
Thanks, very good reference.
> Also the guide book from the Hungarian national museum is a very
> good read regarding the archaeology in Hungary.
> I don't have it in my hand right now but E.g regarding the shield
> boss from Herpalý in your link, they principally say that while
> it's a vandal prince buried (mainly since the boss is in a
> "germanic" style I conclude) the other grave goods are sarmatian in
> style eg the beads found.
>
> They also say that the only corespondances to the boss are from
> Southern Scandinavia or Denmark in particular.
>
> I guess they're referring to Thorsberg and Illerup and the other
> bog offerings.
>
> Also <Nationalmuseet>'s Sejrens Triumf has a chapter very much on
> the subject of sarmatian connections. "Kosmopolitiske aristokrater"
> Bertil Storgaard.
Todd
The Early Germans, pp. 125-126
http://tinyurl.com/l59n4j
'Since there were no natural deposits of gold in the lands occupied by the Germanic peoples, working in the metal could make no progress until external contacts made the raw material available. The flow of gold was modest in the first and second centuries, most of it provided by the Roman world, but with a contribution coming from the Black Sea region. The flow perceptibly increased during the third century and went on increasing later, especially from the later fourth century. In Scandinavia, the fifth and sixth centuries witnessed a flood of gold, in the form of imported coinage, from the eastern Roman world (below, p. 229). The earliest gold objects produced by Germanic craftsmen are small ornaments, mainly pendants and rings, dating from the later first century AD. Few sizeable objects in gold are yet known from the early Roman Iron Age, the most striking exception being a superb torc or neck-ring, found at Havor on the island of Gotland, within a small fortified site, perhaps a chieftainly stronghold.12 The torc had been buried in a hoard which also contained six Roman bronze vessels of the first century AD; the hoard had been concealed about or shortly after AD 100. The ring of the torc, measuring 24 cm in diameter, was composed of gold wires, rectangular in section, twisted together. The terminals are hollow bulbs, plain except for a single cable of filigree. The plain surfaces of the bulbs are in satisfying contrast with the cone-shaped supports of the terminals, which were ornately treated with filigree cables defining crescents into which a steer's head was set. The design of the Havor torc is so mature and confident, and the technical standard so high, that the piece is clearly recognizable as the work of a master goldsmith. Where did he operate? One torc with similar characteristics is known in Scandinavia, at Dronninglund in Denmark. At least three torcs of the same broad type are recorded in south Russia, one at Olbia on the Black Sea, the other two in a hoard found near Kiev. Other goldwork in the Black Sea hinterland shows a general similarity of design to these torcs, and to the pieces from Havor and Dronninglund. It seems fairly clear that the origins of the design and the technical expertise lay in the area north of the Black Sea. But designs and expertise in metalworking can be transmitted by one agency or another. Craftsmen can move and it is not impossible (though perhaps not very likely) that a skilled metalworker made his way to southern Scandinavia from the Black Sea lands in the late first century AD. Apart from the Havor and Dronninglund torcs, a number of small gold objects have appeared in the western Baltic in early Roman Iron Age contexts, revealing the same effective use of filigree. The possibility of a workshop on one of the Baltic islands is thus not to be dismissed out of hand.'
Or the stuff was brought to Scandinavia from the Black Sea.
Question: How does one dístinguish between Sarmatian phalerae and Roman provincial phalerae, adopted by the Romans at the same time from the Sarmatians?
> Regarding the ardaragates and limigantes. I'm imagining that the
> ardaragantes were the masters and that they consisted of the
> Roxolani and that the limigantes were the serfs and that they
> consisted mainly of the old Iazyges.
More likely they were farmers. I think the interesting point about the story is that it shows Sarmatian society as class-oriented, and that they couldn't trust those lower classes. I think there is a parallel in Ariovistus' relationship with the Charudes/Hrvati which he called in to settle the land but who also fought in battle when necessary.
> I'm then thinking that the Auxiliaries given to the romans 175 were
> mostly of this Iazyges "proper" group and that they also went to
> the limes in Germania Inferior apart from Britain.
Check 'Vangiones' etc in the archives. The search function seems to work now.
> In this case I'm playing with the thought that the romans called
> them from this i e Hadrianus wall and limes. Hence limi in
> limigantes.
> But what gantes comes from then I'm not so sure. <gens> maybe?
>
> Anyway, what if these auxiliaries in Britain and hypothetically in
> Germania declared themselves independent? Perhaps they began to
> move westwards to southern Norway and northern Germany respectively
> and attacked the people who subsequently layed down the offerings
> in Thorsberg Illerup and also the other bogs.
The losing and sacrificed army in Illerup came from Norway and Sweden, AFAIK. One might imagine they had invaded Denmark to drive out an invader, without success, apparently.
Torsten