Re: long o: Nominative

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Jarrette" <anjarrette@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I have asked about this....
> > > >
> > > > http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=--ssbDUSJfIC&pg=PA439&dq=long+o+nominative+marker+indo+european#PPA439,M1
> > > >
> > > > Marius
> > > >
> > >
> > > In fact my question was : are there 'pure' long vowels in PIE ?
> > >
> > > (I mean not resulting from something else...)
> > >
> > > Marius
> > >
> >
> > (I'm only replying in case none of the other more knowledgeable members don't reply):
> >
> > Probably not, I think. Long vowels are the result of thematic vowel plus laryngeal, of crasis of two vowels (e.g. -o- of o-stems plus -es plural ending), of lengthening in stressed monosyllables, of compensatory lengthening due to lost consonants (-o:s < *-oss, -o:(n) < *-ons, -o:r < *-ors, etc.), and perhaps other processes that I forget here. I can't think of any original long vowels.
> >
> > Andrew
>
>
> Root-Nouns with long vowel?
>
> Marius
>

I think those are cases where a stressed monosyllable became lengthened in the nom. sg. (I'm not sure if it's due to words like Latin pe:s where the e: could represent compensatory lengthening for the lost *t<*d, or whether it's just a general lengthening of stressed monosyllables and therefore would also be found in the voc. sg., or whether it's compensatory lengthening due to a lost *-s, which might later be reinstated leading to forms like Latin <pe:s> and Greek <poús>). This lengthened form could then be extended to all case forms - e.g. Skt. <va:k>, <va:c-> which clearly has <a:> < *o: < *o since the verb it derives from, Skt <vakti, vivakti> "he speaks, says" has *e, a short vowel from which the noun derivative would have *o by ablaut variation, which then became lengthened to *o: by one of the processes above (or perhaps some other process). I realize now that I am forgetting about vrddhi, the lengthening of vowels that occurs in some derivative words in a number of languages -- this phenomenon I know nothing about except its effects, I don't know the cause or the process. Piotr knows much about it though, I think. But in any case an original short vowel *e or *o is always implicated in such words, I believe.

Andrew