Re: More on dump etc.

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
> I thought the proposal that some word *an,du- vel sim. "insides"
> was a substrate word in Finno-Ugrian (as well as in IE) was proved
> by the fact that the Uralisches etymologisches Wörterbuch has had
> to spread it over three entries; I was wrong, there are four:

Oops, sorry, five!
I'll use the opportunity to translate the entries, hopefully I'll get
a few more reactions that way. After all, if this is true, it's got
consequences all over the place.

> > Rédei
> > Uralisches etymologisches Wörterbuch
>
> 1.
> > omte '(chest, abdominal) cavity' Finno-Ugrian
> > ? Finnish onsi (gen. onnen), ontelo 'hollow; cavity';
> > ? Estonian oos (gen. oone), õõs (gen. õõne) 'cavity, cave' |
> >
> > Saami
> > N vuow'dâ -wd- 'the cavity inside an animal's body
> > (of the chest and abdomen together)',
> > L vuob'ta ~ vuog'ta 'id., in humans';
> > (T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 801)
> > Ko. P vuoD:A 'chest cavity',
> > Not. vuoB:d:t:A 'abdominal cavity (with contents)' |
> >
> > ? Mordvin E undo, M unda 'cavity (in a tree trunk)' |
> >
> > ? Udmurt (Wichm.: FUF 16: 208) J udur 'opening in the beehive' |
> >
> > Khanty (56)
> > V Vj. ont,
> > DN unt
> > 'interior (V Vj. DN),
> > stomach (V),
> > abdominal cavity (in which the intestines are) (Vj.)',
> > (OL 144)
> > DN unt&r 'stomach, belly',
> > Kaz. wo,nt&r 'chest cavity, abdominal cavity' > |
> >
> > Mansi (Kann.—Liim.: MSFOu. 109: 721)
> > KM LO o:nt&r
> > 'belly (KM),
> > uterus (LO),
> > (ÁKE 493) the interior (of humans) (N),
> > (ÁKE 493) LM oånte.r, wånte.r 'belly' |
> >
> > ? Hungarian odú (Akk. odút ~ odvat) 'cave; hole (in tree), den',
> > (dial.) odor 'cavity, cave'.
> >
> > Udmurt, Khanty, Mansi, Hungarian r and Hungarian ú are
> > derivational suffixes.
> > The word might possibly, because of the Udmurt word, already in
> > Finno-Ugrian times have possessed a derivation with the
> > denominative derivational suffix *ræ.
> > The Finnish, Mordvin and Hungarian words stand semantically
> > closer to
> > *on,te 'cave, cavity' Finno-Ugrian (which see).
> > They only belong here if the original sense was generalized:
> > '(chest, abdominal) cavity' -> 'cave, cavity', the Udmurt word
> > only in the case of a semantic shift
> > '(chest, abdominal) cavity' -> 'opening in beehive'.
> >
>
> 2.
> > on,te 'cave, cavity' Finno-Ugrian
> > ?[Finnish onsi (gen. onnen), ontelo 'hollow; cavity';
> > Estonian oos (gen. oone), õõs (gen. õõne) 'cavity, cave'] |
> >
> > Saami
> > N vouw'dâ -wd- 'nesting box for ducks',
> > L vuou'ta 'cavity, hollow space (in a tree)',
> > (T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 802)
> > Ko. Not. vuw:dt:A,
> > Kld. v`wurdt,
> > I vìw:dt(A) 'hollow tree, nest hole' |
> >
> > ? Mordvin E undo, M unda 'cavity (in a tree trunk)' |
> >
> > ? Udmurt (Wichm.: FUF 16: 208) J udur 'opening in beehive' |
> >
> > Khanty (OL 72)
> > V DN on,&t 'cavity (in tree)',
> > Kaz. o,n,&t 'nest of a waterfowl in a tree' |
> >
> > ? Hung. odú (acc. odút ~ odvat) 'cave; hole (in tree), den',
> > (dial.) odor 'cavity, cave'.
> >
> > Udmurt r is a derivational suffix.
> > The Finnish, Mordvin and Udmurt words only belong here, if their
> > inlauting consonant sequences nt, nd and d go back to Finno-Ugrian
> > *n,t.
> > Also semantically it is uncertain, whether the Udmurt word
> > belongs here.
> > The Finnish, Mordvin, Udmurt words and the Hungarian word see
> > also
> > *omte '(chest, abdominal) cavity' Finno-Ugrian.
> > Finnish uuttu 'artificial bird's nest' and
> > uutu 'bird's nest made by egg collectors'
> > (Paasonen: FUF 6:241;
> > T. I. Itkonen: JSFOu. 32/3:64;
> > Wiklund: MSFOu. 67: 409; FUV with ?)
> > don't belong here, as they are derivatives of
> > Finnish uu 'artificial bird's nest'
> >
> > (cf. also uukku, uuka 'cave, nest').
>
>
> 3.
> > won,ke/a 'cave, pit' Uralic
> > Finnish onkalo 'deep depression, chasm, gorge, depression',
> > (SKES dial.)
> > ongahta- 'become hollow',
> > ongerta- 'hollow (out)';
> > Estonian unk (gen. unga) 'rafter',
> > ongas (gen. onka),
> > ungas (gen. unka)
> > 'smoke opening under the tip of the gable (on farmhouses)' |
> >
> > lapp.
> > (Friis) N vuoggo 'antrium, in quo mus sylvestris tegit;
> > tugurium',
> > K (1702) T viøñka, Kld. vuøñk 'lair (of fox)',
> > (T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 764)
> > Ko. Not. vua`GkA 'cavity (under a rock or cliff)' |
> >
> > Khanty (OL 103)
> > Trj. won,k,
> > DN won,x,
> > O on,k 'cave, den (of an animal)
> > (Trj. O), den, lair of a bear (DN)',
> > (218) V wan,k& 'lair (of bear, fox, sabre)',
> > DN wan,x& 'pit; depression (in the bottom of a lake)' |
> >
> > Mansi (Kann., mitg. Leht.: FUF 21 :16)
> > TJ wan,ka:, KU wo:n,x&, P won,k&, So. wO:n,xa 'pit, lair' ||
> >
> > Samoyed
> > Nenets (55)
> > O Nj. wa:n,k 'pit, hole (O Nj.), lair (Nj.)';
> > Enets bággo 'pit';
> > Nganasan bánka 'pit, nest';
> > Selkup Ke. c^a. OO qoqqa 'a small pit, small dug out pit'.
> >
> > Cf.:
> > Altaic:
> > Mongolian *qon,gi: qonggil 'hollow, cave',
> > Mongolian *on,a :
> > kalm. on,ä, on,a: (<*onggai) 'cave, depression';
> > Manchu-Tungus on,go : Oroch. o:n,o 'zaliv, buxta', Gold. ondo.
> >
> > Finnish -lo- and Selkup -qa- are derivational suffixes.
> > In Khanty because of the vowel alternation Proto-Khanty *o ~ a
> > a word has been split up in two.
> > Halász (NyK 24:444) has aligned the Samoyed words,
> > Györke (MNy. 40:17) the derivation wa:n,ka:l- 'pierce' from
> > Nenets wa:n,k 'cave ...' with Hungarian vág- and its
> > correspondences, which however is not acceptable. On the
> > Hungarian word and its correspondes see
> > *wan,kæ (*wan,æ) 'cut, hit' Ugrian, ? Finno-Ugrian.
> >
>
> 4.
> umæ 'depression, cave, cavity' Uralic
> Finnish
> uuma 'waist',
> uumi (gen. uumen) 'center of the body, the soft parts',
> uumen (gen. uumenen) 'cavity;
> (Pl. uumenet) interior, depth; (SKES) waist' |
>
> Khanty (OL 147)
> Trj. ompi 'nest of a waterfowl in a tree',
> (50) Sav. ump& : t´ont´ ump&ja 'into the snow' |
>
> Mansi (Kann., mitg. Liim.: Vir. 1934:183)
> KU im, KO u:m, P vum, wu:m, So. umi
> 'hole, hollow space, cavity (in tree) (KU KO P So.);
> bird's nest in tree (P)' ||
>
> Samoyed
> Nenets (14) O n,a:wa:d, Nj. n,a:mma:t 'waist'.
>
> Khanty pi, p& and Samoyed Jurak d, t are denominative nominal
> suffixes.
> Finn. uu is from a secondary lengthening.
> In Finnish and Samoyed a semantic shift
> 'depression, cave, cavity' -> 'abdominal cavity' -> 'waist'
> might have taken place.
> Semantically cf.
> Finnish suolet, suolisto 'vyötärö; waist' (~ suolì 'intestine');
> Komi girk 'the interior (of the body), innards, abdominal cavity' ~
> 'waist'.
> Toivonen (FUF 21:120; see also FUV) has compared the Khanty word
> with Mordvin umbodo- 'hollow (out)'. This is however not
> acceptable, as pi, p& in Khanty does not belong to the stem, but is
> a derivational suffix.

5.
umpe 'closed, closed state' FP
?[ Finn. umpi 'closed state':
ummessa silmin, silmät ummessa 'with closed eyes',
tie on ummessa 'the road is snowed under';
Estonian umbe 'closed, inaccessible, unbroken (of road), clogged,
not ready, opaque, incomprehensible',
umb, umbes 'quite, completely, over and over' |

Saami
N obbâ ~ obâ ~ oabâ
'a whole, the whole (of), in its entirety all;
(adv. of degree) only, rather, pretty',
L åbbå 'rather; at all, not in the least, not at all; rather big';
K (1945)
Kld. A omp, Not. opp 'closed, completely',
ompi 'completely'] |

? Udmurt (Wichm.: Vir. 1930:392)
o:be 'completely' |

? Komi
Ud ob 'violent snowstorm (much snow)',
(Wied.) ob 'blow away, snow under'.

The grouping is because of the divergent semantics rather uncertain.
Selkup omba, ombeä 'very'
(Setälä: FUFA 12:76, JSFOu. 30/5:32 with ??)
can because of its sense not be assigned here.




TP Note the "insides" noun used as a directional adverb(?) /
postposition in Osty. ump&-ja "into", and similarly in ummessa, loc. of umpe.


Torsten