Re: [tied] Re: Franco-Provençal

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Petr Hrubis <petr.hrubis@...> wrote:

> From: Petr Hrubis <petr.hrubis@...>
> Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Franco-Provençal
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 3:02 PM
> 2009/2/19 Arnaud Fournet <fournet.arnaud@...>:
> >>>
> >>> For example, in the case of Sicilian versus
> standard Italian,
> >>
> >> Precisely. "IN THE CASE" of
> "SICILIAN" versus "STANDARD ITALIAN".
> >>
> >> You need to invent new rules from language to
> language. And that's
> >> whence the problems arise.
> >
> > =========
> >
> > I don't think so.
> >
> > The criteria are fairly straightforward.
> >
> > A.
> > ========
>
> Yes, but they are language-specific. They are not
> universal, are they?
> They are "objective" within the language or
> dialect continuum.
>
> You complain about "relativistic approaches", but
> you're using one as
> well, aren't you?
>
> >
> >> Are Croatian and Serbian separate languages or
> mere dialects of the
> >> same language???
> >> Are Czech and Slovak separate languages or mere
> dialects of the same
> >> language???
> >
> > =======
> >
> > I would personally consider them dialects of the same
> language.
> > The fact Croatian and Serbian are not written with the
> same alphabet does
> > not make them two different languages.
> >
> > A.
> > =======
>

One of my best friends is Serbian, born in Krajina but raised in Nish. He says the difference is principally one of accent but with some different vocabulary. He says it's sort of like the difference between Standard and southern US English /po-LI:S/ vs / PO-li:s/. He also emphasizes that the traditional dialect divisions of Ikavian, Kakavian, etc. do not correspond at all to political borders and that all the traditional dialects are found in Croatia but that in Serbia, the pronunciation is much more uniform. He also says that in the South, cases get lost, so whenever he goes to Bulgaria, he is usually referred to as "Some Macedonian guy to see you, Boss."
He says that Macedonian is readily distinguishable from Bulgarian, although Macedonian is also spoken in parts of W Bulgaria, but that while a Macedonian can easily pick out a Bulgarian, the reverse is not always true. He said that near his region, a transitional language/dialect/continuum called Shop, makes things even more interesting because the Shops were famous for changing flags every time a new army came through.