Re: French phonetics

From: Petr Hrubis
Message: 62698
Date: 2009-02-01

And one more point, if I may: which system is used to render Chinese
names in Italy? Here in Czechia, one has to learn three systems:
Pinyin, Wade-Giles and the Czech system.

And to Arnaud and other native speakers of French, which system is
used in France?



2009/2/1 Petr Hrubis <petr.hrubis@...>:
> I should have added: which syllables can be stressed in Italian and
> how can the irregular stress be marked in the orthography? ;-)
> Every language treats foreign names and words in a similar way: it
> alters them in order to fit its phonology. However voiced can the
> final /d/ in Claude be, Czechs will always pronounce it [klO:t] in the
> nominative (of course, [klO:da] in the genitive, etc.).
> Now, I doubt every learned French speaker would render Francesco with
> the [s] instead ot [ts^]. That's a claim that would have to be backed
> up by a statistical survey.
> Best,
> Petr
> 2009/2/1 Petr Hrubis <petr.hrubis@...>:
>> Then tell me, Francesco, how do the Italians pronounce McDonald, where
>> is the stress in the Italian pronunciation.
>> Also, tell me, do the Italians really pronounce Fran├žois [frAN'swa]
>> with the nasal vowel, uvular R, final stress and [sw] group? I'm
>> asking because, since those sounds are strange to the Czech mouth and
>> ear, we pronounce it as ['], i.e. initial stress, no
>> nazalized vowels, three syllables (period = syllable boundary). ;-)
>> Best,
>> Petr
>> 2009/2/1 Francesco Brighenti <frabrig@...>:
>>> --- In, Petr Hrubis <petr.hrubis@...> wrote:
>>>> I don't see how any of the following matters,
>>> I had premised mine was kind of a weekend joke :^)
>>>> but as far as I know this is by far the best way to render the
>>>> Russian names by means of French phonetics.
>>> Isn't there really any practical way to avoid the constant shifting
>>> of the stress to the last syllable in French transliterations or
>>> transcriptions of foreign names/words (with the latter being
>>> historically always treated as if they were French terms)? Or is
>>> this the same case as that with the Japanese
>>> transliteration "makudonarudo" for McDonald (etc.)?
>>> I gave the example of Italian because we generally RECOGNIZE that
>>> foreign words are subject to different phonetic rules when we try to
>>> pronounce them. For instance, when an Italian reads the French name
>>> Fran├žois he does not pronounce it as <fran'kois>, although this
>>> would be the "natural" pronunciation of it for us. On the contrary,
>>> when a French utters my name, Francesco, he/she invariably
>>> pronounces it as <'franse'sko>, as if it were a French word.
>>> Are you saying that it would be impossible for the French to
>>> pronounce Mme Carla Bruni's name with correctly applying the Italian
>>> phonetic rules instead of the French ones (thus: <caR'la bRy'ni>)?
>>> So goes for all other foreign names pronounced by native French
>>> speakers, whether they are transliterated from a non-Roman script or
>>> not. They are, to make ot clearer, treated as if they were
>>> some "bizarre" French names. No effort is made to pronounce them
>>> correctly.
>>> Regards,
>>> Francesco