Re: OE Tir and OHG Ziari

At 8:13:19 AM on Saturday, January 31, 2009, A. wrote:

> I was reading a post elsewhere on the net
> (http://forums.skadi.net/archive/index.php/t-54081.html)
> where someone remarked that the OE Tir 'glory' was
> etymologically unrelated to Tyr.

That's OE <ti:r>, cognate with ON <tírr> 'glory, renown',
and ON <Týr>, cognate with OE <Ti:w>. Note that the <-r> of
<Týr> is inflexional and completely unrelated to the <-r> of
<ti:r>.

> I had always thought the two shared a commonr origin. I
> see that Pokorny derives both from *dei- , which is listed
> as *deiwos in Watkins AHDIER.

Not quite: he gives the immediate PIE source of the theonyms
as *deiwos (> PGmc. *ti:waz), but the underlying root is
*dyeu-. OE <ti:r> and ON <tírr> look to me as if they ought
to be from *dih2-ro- (> PGmc. *ti:-ra-), where *dih2- is the
zero grade of *deyh2- 'to shine'. I believe that this root
is generally thought to be related to *dyew-; you'll note
that Watkins calls it a variant in part IV of his entry for
*dyeu-.

> The only evidence I have found to support this man's claim
> is from 'Transactions of the Philological Society By
> Philological Society (Dec 19 1879)' in which:

> " A paper by Mr H NICOL correcting some of the English
> Etymologies adopted by the Rev Prof Skeat in the first
> part of his Dictionary and for the most part generally
> received was read in the unavoidable absence of the author
> by Mr H Sweet..... OE, O Sax, and O Norse, tir 'glory', is
> not the cognate of OHG ziari, the words having different
> root-vowels, different terminations, and different
> genders;"

This doesn't support the claim: it denies the usual view
that OHG <ziari> goes with OE & OSax <ti:r>, and ON <tírr>,
but it doesn't connect it with ON <Týr> and OE <Ti:w>.

Brian