From: tgpedersen
Message: 62635
Date: 2009-01-28
> Actually to Arizona, it seems.Th. Kingo
> http://www.uaf.edu/anlc/docs/vajda-2008.pdf
> quote:
> 'A number of Yeniseic roots have final velar fricative /x/ in Kott
> or Arin, but apical plosive /d/ in Ket/Yugh; cf. Kott -thex and Ket
> -tet 'poke, hit endwise using a long object'. Some of the Ket/Yugh
> roots show an irregular morphophonemic alternation between d and
> velar G or k when a plural suffix is added: Ket -tet vs. -teG-in
> (in verb forms with a plural subject); also Ket di't 'spruce
> grouse', dekn, 'spruce grouses'. This suggests that the final velar
> was original. Na-Dene cognates, where available, confirm this: PA
> *d&x 'grouse, spruce hen' (Krauss & Leer 1981:190). Similarly,
> compare Kott -thex and Ket -tet 'poke, hit endwise using a long
> object' with the Proto-Athabaskan cognate * ts&x 'poke, act endwise
> with a rigid stick-like object' (Young & Morgan 1992:604).
> This pattern only applies in the case of *x after an original back
> vowel, since coda *x (as well as *xW and *x fronted to *s^ in
> Proto-Yeniseic and finally to apical /s/ in Modern Ket. Once again,
> irregularities in plural forms reveal which final s-sounds in Modern
> Ket derive from original *s and which from a back fricative. The
> reflexes of original /s/ never merge with the nasal ending, so that
> the plural ending appears as a separate element: ki's 'foot' ->
> kis-en, 'feet'. But /s/ derived from a back fricative invariably
> causes assimilation of the nasal plural suffix, resulting in the
> creation of a falling tone: Ket de's 'eye' -> dès 'eyes' (cf. PA
> ne'x 'eye'). Also cf. PA *de'xW' river, sandbar' (Krauss 2005:84)
> and Ket se's 'river' but sàs 'rivers', where long distance
> assimilation changed the onset *d to /s/ in Ket. The original form
> of 'river' was apparently preserved in the extinct Yeniseic
> dialects of Western Siberia, which left numerous hydronyms ending
> in -tes, -tis^, including the famous Irtysh River.
> A topic for future research involves the issue of long-distance
> (onset + coda) consonant harmony in early Yeniseic. The Yeniseic
> cognates for 'river', which appear in hydronyms over vast stretches
> of western and central Siberia, show various alternations involving
> sibilants and /d/: cf. Ket se's, Yugh c^es, as well as tes ~ tis
> from at least one of not several undocumented Yeniseic languages of
> western Siberia. Too few words show this alternation to be clear on
> the nature of the assimilation, though it most likely preceded from
> coda to onset, at least in Ket and Yugh, since the onset
> correspondence of Ket se's and Yugh c^es is unique to this word.
> The final vowel, as well as the anomalous consonant in Kott/Assan
> cognates Kott s^eti and Assan c^eti 'river' appear to derive from a
> suffix /ti/ (This vowel elides when 'river' is the second component
> of a hydronym: Kott -s^et, Assan -c^et, but remains in the plural
> of the free-standing nouns: Kott s^ati, Assan -c^ati.). The
> Pumpokol det 'river' shows a typical change of /s/ to /t/. The
> original Proto-Yeniseic form for 'river' was therefore probably
> something like *deis^ or *dais and is a probable cognate to PA
> *de'xW 'river, sandbar' (Krauss 2005:84), which appears in the
> combining form -dez^W&` in river names of Athabaskan provenance
> across a broad area of north central Canada. See Kari (1996:260)
> for a superb discussion of Northern Athabaskan hydronyms.'
>
>
> The "river" word is here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniseian_languages
>
> For any of the proposed proto-forms for this Yeniseian "river,
> sandbar", Uralic sose (sase) "Schneebrei; schwammig, porös (Knochen,
> Baum)" would make sense as a loan, adapted to Uralic phonologigical
> constraints (note that both forms have 'ablaut').
>
> As for the strange double semantics "carcass; brittle ice" an exact
> counterpart exists in Danish (pt. II):
>
> DEO:
> Skrog et 'krop; skelet; kernehus; skibslegeme; sølle person';
> ænyda. skrog, skraag, no. skrog, skrov.
> Egl. vistnok to forsk. ord:
> I. En sideform til sv. dial. skrokk 'skrog', oldnord. skrokkr m.
> 'krop, klodset person, skrog';
> af urnord. *skrunkaR, der ligesom da. dial. skrunken 'indskrumpet'
> (s.d.), oldnord. skrukka 'gammel, rynket kone' hører til sa. rod som
> II. rynke.
> 2. En form modsv. no. skrov 'skrog; åbnet dyrekrop; ngt.
> skrøbeligt', sv. skrov 'krop, dyrekrop, skrog, skrummel; ru
> overflade (af is)', vel af germ. *skruB-, ie. *skrup-, hvis videre
> forb. er usikker. Jf. skroget.'
>
> Hellquist wants to separate the meanings completely:
> http://runeberg.org/display.pl?mode=facsimile&work=svetym&page=0839
>
> But an if we assume a loan, a match seems to be present in
>
> Ordbog over det danske Sprog
> 'Skodse. + Skotse, se u. Isskosse. nu sj. Skaasse.
> Krist.JyA.Till.5.Afd.l20(jf. u. Is-skosse). Skaadse.
> POWalløe.Dagb.110.
> ogs. Sko(d)s, [obsolete] Skots, se u. Isskosse;. flt. -r.
> (vistnok fra holl. scho(t)s (nordfris. skos, nt. (flt.) schussen),-
> et andet ord (jf. holl. schors, f., bark, [obsolete] i bet.
> isskorpe, isflage, af oldfr. escorce, lat. cortex, se Kork) er vel
> bornh. (is)skors, n., isflage (BornhHaandvEr.43.45. 58. BornhOS.);
> sml. endvidere (i sa. bet.) Kosse, II. Skodde (Skotte, Skode, Skud),
> I. Skolle)
> 1) (især marit.) stykke ell. tyk flage af is; dels om større,
> drivende isflage, dels (sjældnere) om mindre, knuste brokker af is
> (der danner grødis), vi (mødte) endeel Skaadser og tillige
> nattelagt Iis.
> POWalløe.Dagb.110. herind driver.. Vestisens tunge, aargamle
> Skosser.
> KnudRasm. G. 45. Skodser betyder itu-brudt Is, ikke store Flager,
> men smaa knoldede Isblokke. BerlTid.11/7 l921.Aft.3.sp.l.
> 2) (geol., nu næppe br.) om stort sammenhængende parti ("flage") af
> jordskorpen, der har modstaaet senere omdannelser. Alpe- og
> Karpatherlandet danner, geologisk set, det unge Europa". Ældgamle
> Jordskodser mangle vel ikke her, men disse Egnes typiske
> Overfladeform, de skarpt skaarne Kædebjærge, ere dog Nyskabninger.
> Sal.VI.277.'
>
> And note here Dutch schaatsen (cf. schots above) "to skate", and
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60087
> plus Sw. skjuts (now mostly ride n., as in being offered a ride)
> http://runeberg.org/display.pl?mode=facsimile&work=svetym&page=0827
>
> Language of geminate auslaut variation -nt-/-tt-/-ts- and root
> -a/-u- ablaut of the ar-/ur-language. Ir doesn' get much better
> than that.
>
> So it's "(move (fast) in/on) thin ice"?
>
> Perhaps we would the have solved the riddle of the Gmc. "shoe" word.
>
> UEW
> 's´ona 'Schlitten' FU
>
> lapp. (T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 690)
> T t's^´i&n,n,V,
> Kld. t's^´u&n,n,e, 'bootförmiger Lappenschlitten' (> kar. tsuna),
> ?(T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 638)
> Ko. P tsu:n,e, Kld. t's´´un,n, 'Rentierschlitten von karelischer Art
> (Ko. P), russischer Schlitten (Kld.)' |
>
> wog. (Kann., mitg. Liim.: MSFOu. 127:120)
> TJ s^on 'Schlitten', (Kann.: FUF 17:85)
> KU son: jojt&x s. 'Lastschlitten',
> (Kann.Liim.: MSFOu. 134:176) P s^un 'Schlitten',
> (Kann., mitg. Stein., WogVok. 275) So. sun.
>
> Vgl. alt.:
> tat c^ana,
> s^or. s^anak,
> türkm. s^a:na,
> tschuw. s´ona 'Schlitten';
> mong. c^ana 'sleigh, ski, snowshoes'.
>
> Möglicherweise ist lapp. Ko. P tsu:n,e 'Rentierschlitten von
> karelischer Art' die Übernahme des russ. dial. c^uni
> 'Rentierschlitten mit hohem Ständer', das wiederum möglicherweise
> aus dem lapp. (vgl. Kld. t's^´u&n,n,e 'bootförmiger
> Lappenschlitten") ins Russ. gelangte.
> Das von Serebrennikov (ALH 15:300) mit dem wog. Wort
> zusammensgestellre jur. (155) O xan, P kan 'Schlitten' gehört nicht
> hierher, da der anlautende Konsonant auf ursprüngliches *k
> zurückgeht.'
>