Re: Sos-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
>
> Tadeusz Lehr-Spl/awin´ski:
> O pochodzeniu i praojczyz´nie Sl/owian
> p. 84
> '6. Sosa, Sosno itp.
> 1. Sosa pd. Muszy w pow. wil/komierskim w Kowien´szczyz´nie.
> 2. Sosie jezioro w pow. wilen´skim kol/o Dubinki. 3. Sosno-
> jezioro ws´ród bagien mie,dzy Prypecia, a jej odnoga, zwana,
> Prostyrn´ w pow. pin´skim na Polesiu.
> 4. Sosno jezioro w pow. horodeckim b. gub. witebskiej.
> 5. Sosno dwa jeziora w pow. brodnickim na Pomorzu: jedno tworzy
> cze,s´c´ biegu rz. Gl/e,boczka ld. Drwe,cy, drugie cze,s´c´ biegu
> rz. Niskie Brodno pd. Drwe,cy.
>
> Nazwy te ze wzgle,dów sl/owotwórczych nie dadza, sie, w z.aden
> sposób powia,zac´ z rdzeniem sl/ów. zawartym w wyrazie sosna,
> najprawdopodobniej wie,c polegaja, na rdzeniu, który wyste,puje w
> wyrazach fin´skich, jak sose soseen, soska, sohja 'bl/oto jesienne,
> brud',sahi 'kal/uz.a, bród' itp. (181).
>
> translation
> "6. Sosa, Sosno etc.
> 1. Sosa right trib. to Muszyna in Wil/komierski pow.
> Kowien´szczyl/nie.
> 2. Sosie lake in Wilen´ski(?) pow. by Dubinka.
> 3. Sosno lake amid swamps between Pripet and its branch called
> Postyrn´ in Pin´sk pow. in Polesie.
> 4. Sosno lake in Horod(?) pow. b. Witebsk gub..
> 5. Sosno two lakes in Brodni(?) pow. in Pomerania : one forms part
> of the course of the river Gl/e,boczka left trib. to Drwe,ca, the
> other part of the course of the river Niskie Brodno, right trib. to
> Drwe,ca.
> [the translation machine says 'Sequoia' and 'Undersized Beard'; I
> think I'll stay with 'Sosno' and 'Niskie Brodno']
>
> These names from a morphological perspective can in no way be
> related to the Slavic root contained in the word sosna "pine", but
> are very likely based on the root which appears in Finnish words
> such as sose soseen, soska, sohja 'autumn swamp, dirt', sahi 'muck,
> ford' etc. (181)."
>
> Torsten
>
> ==========
>
> I would rather compare this *sos to
>
> Number: 929
> Proto: *sOsV-
> English meaning: to become wet
> German meaning: nass werden
> Finnish: (suostu- 'feucht werden' - rejected by Redei)
> Komi (Zyrian): sez- 'feucht werden'
> Khanty (Ostyak): lal- (V) 'feucht, nass werden', jal- (Vj. id.;
> frisch, weich werden', tat- (Kam.) 'quellen, dicht werden (im
> Wasser)', lol (Kaz.) 'feucht, naß machen, befeuchten'
> Mansi (Vogul): tat' (TJ), tot- (KU), tit- (P), tit- (So.) 'nass
> werden'
>
> All the more so as this root is massively attested in Ob and
> Yenissei waterbasins in hydronyms.

That root? How do you know?
It makes no sense to call a river 'the wet one', a name must have the
property of singling its referent out among the potential candidates,
thus to mention a special, not a general property of the water body in
question.

> The strange fact is this root is hardly attested as an ordinary
> lexical item outside Ugric.

It depends on what you start out with in your definition of the verb;
add water to dry matter and get mash ('feucht werden'), or add water
to dry matter and get mash ('Schneebrei, slush')

> You may have found something.

Those Polish linguists found something, I added 2 1/2 etymologies
around the Øresund.

>
> NB : Finnish words such as sose
> soseen, soska, sohja 'autumn swamp, dirt'
>
> What are you talking about ?
> I found a site which translates sose as purée and soska as nipple !!

Ask Lehr-Spl/awin´ski.
The sose, soseen part must be UEW's sose (sase) "Schneebrei" (and your
"purée").


Torsten