From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 62136
Date: 2008-12-18
>before
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
> > > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
> > > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
> > > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
> > > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
> > > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
> > > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
> > > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
> > > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
> > > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
> > > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
> > > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
> > > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
> > > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
> > > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
> > > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
> > > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
> > > Tamil word.
> >
> >
> >
> > > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
> > > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
> > > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
> > > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
> > > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
> > > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
> > > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
> > > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
> > > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
> > > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
> > > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
> > > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
> > > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
> > > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
> > > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
> > > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.
> >
> >
> > Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the
> original
> > form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/
> >
> > So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:
> >
> > *g^-
> > *y-
> > *dzy-
> > *dy-
> >
> > Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere
> > or just around 600 ACnumber
> >
> >
> > Marius
> >
>
>
> On the today Romanian territory the word is attested:
>
> I. - aprox. somewhere between sec. IV?-VIII? on the artifact
> 21 of Extraordinary Gold Tresor of Sannicolau Marestick'
>
> (you can see the gold artifacts here
> http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tezaurul_de_la_S%c3%a2nnicolau_Mare)
>
> The inscriptions seems to be in a Turkic? Language and is
> written with Greek Characters
> - the inscription talks about ZOUPAN BUILA/BOILA AND ZOUPAN
> BUTAUL/BOTAUL
> see at:
> http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/30_Writing/Nagy-Szent-
> Miklos_En.htm
>
> No intention of nationalism on my side:
> 1. but Buila/Boila and Butaul/Botaul sound for me like some Names
> taken from Romanian Old Popular Stories ...
> 2. and I can add their terminations: -ila (as in lung-il&) and
> especially -ul (lup-ul) (-(u)l Articol Hotarat in Romanian) at the
> end of these names
> 3. and last but not least botaul /bot&ul/ is a Romanian word, a
> derived word from /bot&/ meaning: 'a big' bota /bot&/ => 'a big
>Slavic
> --------------------------------------
> Iara Costea cum mergea
> Cu Fulga se intalnea.
> Fulga cel cu barba neagra
> Si cu mintea neintreaga,
> Necajit si obosit,
> De trei zile flamanzit:
> „Alei! Fulgo, dragul meu,
> Sa faci cum ti-oi zice eu:
> Mergi la stana mea cu bine
> Sa-ti iei un dar de la mine,
> Trei mioare de frigare
> S-inca una de caldare
> Ca sa-ti fie de pranzare.“
> Fulga cel cu barba neagra,
> Dar cu mintea neintreaga,
> Sus la stana se ducea
> S-oile cat le vedea,
> Carduri, carduri le rupea,
> Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le mana
> In codru la Pandina.
> ----------------------------------------
>
> the popular poem can be found here:
> http://www.preferatele.com/docs/romana/3/romanii-de-pe-maluri24.php
>
> ==============================
> Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le m^ana
> -> 'with a Big Stick ...he 'has driven' the sheeps
> ==============================
>
>
> II. - at 843 in an inscription in Dobrogea that seems to be in
> "Jupan Dimitrie"DIFFERENT
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ro/8/8f/Jupan_Dimitrie.jpg
>
>
> III. Other Inscriptions in Dobrogea in sec X
>
>
> NOTE: WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE WORD IS ATTESTED IN 2
> LANGUAGES APROX. IN THE SAME HISTORICAL PERIOD AND IN THE SAMEinterpret
> TERRITORRY => that indicated a widely utilization of it, across the
> language barriers
>
>
> IV. The name of the Dacian King Duras Diurpaneus was usually
> interpreted as a compound *diur- + *pa:neus
>
> If *diur- is not quite clear, "it is hard not no try" to
> -pa:neus as "Master, Lord" (in Diur-paneus)and BOILA /bo-i-l&/ is a common Romanian Name today in Transylvannia
>
> No link with the above remark:
> But a word *diurpaneus would gave been survived in Old Romanian
> as *g^urp^an- and in Romanian as *jurp^an-
> For this reason it was put in link with Romanian jup^an too.
>
>
> Marius
>