--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@>
> wrote:
>
> > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
> > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
> > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
> > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
> > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
> > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
> > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
> > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
> > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
> > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
> > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
> > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
> > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
> > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
> > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
> > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
> > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
> > Tamil word.
>
>
>
> > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
> > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
> > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
> > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
> > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
> > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
> > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
> > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
> > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
> > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
> > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
> > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
> > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
> > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
> > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
> > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.
>
>
> Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the
original
> form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/
>
> So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:
>
> *g^-
> *y-
> *dzy-
> *dy-
>
> Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere before
> or just around 600 AC
>
>
> Marius
>
On the today Romanian territory the word is attested:
I. - aprox. somewhere between sec. IV?-VIII? on the artifact number
21 of Extraordinary Gold Tresor of Sannicolau Mare
(you can see the gold artifacts here
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tezaurul_de_la_S%c3%a2nnicolau_Mare)
The inscriptions seems to be in a Turkic? Language and is
written with Greek Characters
- the inscription talks about ZOUPAN BUILA/BOILA AND ZOUPAN
BUTAUL/BOTAUL
see at:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/30_Writing/Nagy-Szent-
Miklos_En.htm
No intention of nationalism on my side:
1. but Buila/Boila and Butaul/Botaul sound for me like some Names
taken from Romanian Old Popular Stories ...
2. and I can add their terminations: -ila (as in lung-il&) and
especially -ul (lup-ul) (-(u)l Articol Hotarat in Romanian) at the
end of these names
3. and last but not least botaul /bot&ul/ is a Romanian word, a
derived word from /bot&/ meaning: 'a big' bota /bot&/ => 'a big stick'
--------------------------------------
Iara Costea cum mergea
Cu Fulga se intalnea.
Fulga cel cu barba neagra
Si cu mintea neintreaga,
Necajit si obosit,
De trei zile flamanzit:
„Alei! Fulgo, dragul meu,
Sa faci cum ti-oi zice eu:
Mergi la stana mea cu bine
Sa-ti iei un dar de la mine,
Trei mioare de frigare
S-inca una de caldare
Ca sa-ti fie de pranzare.“
Fulga cel cu barba neagra,
Dar cu mintea neintreaga,
Sus la stana se ducea
S-oile cat le vedea,
Carduri, carduri le rupea,
Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le mana
In codru la Pandina.
----------------------------------------
the popular poem can be found here:
http://www.preferatele.com/docs/romana/3/romanii-de-pe-maluri24.php
==============================
Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le m^ana
-> 'with a Big Stick ...he 'has driven' the sheeps
==============================
II. - at 843 in an inscription in Dobrogea that seems to be in Slavic
"Jupan Dimitrie"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ro/8/8f/Jupan_Dimitrie.jpg
III. Other Inscriptions in Dobrogea in sec X
NOTE: WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE WORD IS ATTESTED IN 2 DIFFERENT
LANGUAGES APROX. IN THE SAME HISTORICAL PERIOD AND IN THE SAME
TERRITORRY => that indicated a widely utilization of it, across the
language barriers
IV. The name of the Dacian King Duras Diurpaneus was usually
interpreted as a compound *diur- + *pa:neus
If *diur- is not quite clear, "it is hard not no try" to interpret
-pa:neus as "Master, Lord" (in Diur-paneus)
No link with the above remark:
But a word *diurpaneus would gave been survived in Old Romanian
as *g^urp^an- and in Romanian as *jurp^an-
For this reason it was put in link with Romanian jup^an too.
Marius