Re: Scandinavia and the Germanic tribes such as Goths, Vandals, Angl

From: tgpedersen
Message: 61800
Date: 2008-11-22

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@> wrote:
> >
> > At 10:39:09 AM on Monday, November 10, 2008, tgpedersen
> > wrote:
> >
> > > de Vries' Altnordisches etymologisches Wörterbuch informs
> > > me (entry ey "insel") that Gotland in Finnish is
> > > 'Voijonmaa, richtiger Vuojanmaa' and 'eig. Insel-land'.
> >
> > Somehow you failed to mention that this appears s.v. <ey>
> > because de Vries, citing Karsten, FMS 2, 1934, 50-3, takes
> > <Vuojan-> to be a borrowing of the Scandinavian word.
>
> Yes, in all the enthusiasm I overlooked that little arrow; actually
> it's not a hindrance.
> Jouppe in his list of Archaic Pre-Finnic Lexemes Preserved in
> Finnish (in the Files section) has
> Finnish vuo "stream, torrent, riverbed",
> Pre-Finnic (Proto-Finnic?, < PFU) uva < uwå,
> entry in Uralisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch un,a
> attested also in Saami and ObUgric
>
> I'm not aware of what principles he has used for identifying
> possible correspondenes in IE to his FU glosses.
> Here are two in Finnish vou- from his list:
>
> vuori "hill, mountain, height", PFinnic voori < woori,
> UEW we,re (Permic, ObUgric?)
> < PIA *aras- or arah
>
> vuosi "year", PFinnic ooti,
> UEW ode(oode) (Saami, Permic, ObUgric?, Hungarian?)
> < PIA *vatas- or *vatah
>
> The latter one I've been looking at too
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/45139
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/56709
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/51110
>
> This is getting complicated.
>
> As for a possible *w- > *g- (*G-?) in Gothic/Jutic (and I'm talking
> low register, obviously not Wulfila's Gothic, which might have been
> derived from the language of the invaders):
> http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/departs/medieval/saga/pdf/303-martin.pdf
> the beginning of the text of Codex Gothanus
> http://www.northvegr.org/lore/germanic/c.php
> cf. gutan- in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Pietroassa

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3714005
Wonder how that one ends.

I still think there was a sociolectal alternation *g-/*w- and *g-/*j-
in early Germanic, but in the above case I'm implying a *g-/*w-/*j-
alternation in one and the same word, which I shouldn't have. On the
other hand, this does happen in languages where two 'high' allophones
have one and the same 'low' allophone, in the case of a word going
high -> low -> high, eg. Da.(from Fr.) *z^ü -> s^ü -> skü [sky]
"aspic", where it comes up with the wrong 'high' allophone, thus the
wrong phoneme(s). Another example might be Gmc. *gam-/*wam- "(moral)
corruption/decay" with *gam-/*jam- "jump; leg" which has some semantic
overlap in "enjoying life" where the shift might have taken place.
Note BTW that this one too has Finnic connections, with v-.


Torsten