From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 61468
Date: 2008-11-08
----- Original Message -----
From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> ============
Give me break. Everybody identifies the word in the Pliny quote with
Germanic *plo:G-, pre-Slavic *ploug-. Your claim does not make that
'unsupported', much less 'falsified'. As I said earlier, the Venetic
word, which the Germani borrowed, would be *plan,W-, which would in
Pliny's rendition be plaum-, in PGmc > *plõn,W- > *plo:G-/*ploUG-,
from which PSlav. *ploUg- > *plug-.
=========
Why should this word become *plaum > plo:G
when baum does not ?
Arnaud
=========
> >
> > And when I said 'p/b alternation exists in the NWB words' it means
> > just that, not that p/b alternation exists in the NWB language,
> > as you seem to think it means.
>
> ======
> Alternations do not exist in the NWB words
> they exist in the reflexes of these words.
Yes, that's what I said.
==========
No,
you said the alternations existed in NWB
I reject this idea.
I think the "apparent" alternation is due to multiple loans from different
sources, one of them is NWB.
A.
=======
> I was hinting at the fact the alternation can be attributed to
> separate borrowings sources, some of them really NWB some of them
> Celtic.
> A.
Yes you did. After I did it. Now you just owe us an explanation of
what you think the Celts were doing in Jutland. Maybe you should look
at a map?
===========
Most Germanic people are attested in a place to which they came.
Jutlanders can have borrowed it from Celtic on their way.
I'm not making the claim Celts were in Jutland.
A.
==========
> Germanic people can have created these alternations separately in
> each of their own languages to make them more expressive according
> to what they think is expressive.
> That very short list of words is therefore not very solid.
What exactly is it that expressiveness wants to express in words for
"plum" and "bag"?
======
I agree plum is the only word in your list that describes something real
with no particular expressivity.
One word, ok
this is not much...
A.
======
> And PIE also have alternations like bher/par both of which means
> "to bear (a child)"
> If we follow your reasoning, PIE is in shreds.
Your usual fuzzy thinking and blaming others for your own mistakes.
========
I don't remember I blame others for my own mistakes.
A.
==========
And I don't accept explanations involving unexplained 'expressiveness'.
Torsten
=======
I don't like the concept of "expressiveness" either.
A.