Re: Re[4]: [tied] Re: [pieml] Labiovelars versus Palatals + Labiovel

From: G&P
Message: 61202
Date: 2008-11-02

> Right, there is a sound like [w] in French,

> now the issue is : what is its status ?

It is not uncommon for different analyses of a language to make slightly different decisions about what is or is not a phoneme.  Contrastive pairs are not enough;  it all depends whether the segments are re-analysed as an allophone of something else. 

For example, not many people suggest that English has the phoneme [ç] (that’s the German ich-laut, in case the symbol doesn’t appear properly), but the sound certainly occurs, and in contrastive pairs  (e.g. hue and who).  Should it be a phoneme, or not?  More significantly for me, some linguists won’t accept voiceless [W] as a phoneme, but in my dialect it undeniably is.

So a debate about whether a sound is or is not a phoneme is probably not about the sound at all, or about the language, but about the choice of analysis.

Peter