Re: An Alteuropäisch appellative as loanword?

From: tgpedersen
Message: 61055
Date: 2008-10-23

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> Actually I mean Venetic, but one wouldn't like to cause offense, and
> it's the same to me.
>
> Germ. traben, Du. draven "trot" etc have no decent etymology, says
> Grimm. Nor does Germ. trabant, Dutch drabant "foot soldier" /
> "satellite". Grimm points to the Czech lands and 'drav' as origin, >
but -ant is no Czech suffix. Some have tried to connect it to a
> causative *draif-j-, but the vocalism is wrong.
>
> River names, eg. in Poland *Draw-, *Dram-, *Draw-ant-.
>
> Piotr mentioned that multi-root in his article as behaving like
> another strange multi-root *gax-, *gam- "go", connected to
> regular-ablauting *gWiwH3- (vel sim.!) "live". At least that's how I
> remember it. Hm.
>
> On top of that, the root looks like an a-variant of Gmc. *dri:v-
> "drive", ie as if it were a cognate of it in a pre-ablaut IE
> language.
>
> So I propose Venetic *dran,W- "pull a boat from the bank" ->
> "trotting along next to a horse" (now I'm really pushing it!),
> related somehow to the various draw/drag/trahere/trekken roots (and
> if they were loans from Venetic too, we'd have a solution to the
> problem of the 'wrong' anlauts). Recall Ariovistus' new tactical
> foot soldier + horseman units.

This is getting interestinger and interestinger.
Recall that the Germanic class VI strong verbs have PIE (supposedly)
-a-/-o:-/-o:-/-a- where more predictable Germanic verbs (Class I -
III) have PIE -e-/-o-/zero/zero.
The Germanic verb 'dragan' is a class VI verb. As claimed above, we
have reason to suspect it is a Venetic verb. We also have reason to
suspect that Venetic (or Old Europen) was a non-ablauting a-language,
so that a verb in place of the PIE -e-/-o-/zero/zero pattern would
have -a-/-a-/-a-/-a-. If we assume it had Brugmann lengthening in the
3sg perf., and generalized that to all persons and tenses, it would
have -a-/-a:-/-a:-/-a-. And if that was loaned into Germanic before
that had a: > o: (which must have happened when e: > a:, cf Swe:w- >
Swa:w-), then it would have the pattern -a-/-o:-/-o:-/-a-, which is
exactly Germanic class VI.
If that is the case, all of class VI

Gothic
alan, to grow;
us-anan, to expire;
faran, to go;
ga-daban, to beseem;
ga-draban, to hew out;
ga-dragan, to heap up;
graban, to dig;
af-hlaþan, to lade;
malan, to grind;
sakan, to dispute;
skaban, to shave;
slahan, to smite;
standan, to stand;
swaran, to swear;
þwahan, to wash;
wakan, to wake;

OHG
faran, to go;
tragan, to carry;
wahsan, to grow;
slahan, to strike;
stantan, to stand;

OE
alan, to grow;
calan, to freeze;
3alan, to sing;
3rafan, to dig;
hladan, to lade;
wadan, to go;
dra3an, to draw;
3na3an, to gnaw;
acan, to ache;
bacan, to bake;
sacan, to quarrel;
sc(e)acan, to shake;
wasca, to wash;

are loans from Venetic.

Interesting fact: Slav. grob "grave", acc. to Gol/a,b a Gmc > Slav.
loan, now looks more like a loan Ven > Gmc, Slav.


Torsten