From: tgpedersen
Message: 61004
Date: 2008-10-19
>Ah, of course: metathesis from *kWet-r-/*pet-r- "corner, edge; four"
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@> wrote:
> >
> > At 6:50:57 AM on Friday, October 17, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I find in Dansk Stednaveordbog (loking for something else)
> > > Kare (Djursland) *1423 Kaarde 1437 kardhæ; locally [kå:r].
> > > Possibly n. ODa. *kwartha with the sense "brim, edge"
> >
> > Eng. 'brim' has a slightly different sense from Dan.
> > <bræmme>,
> I know.
> > which I suspect is what you're translating;
> I was.
> > I also suspect that 'edge, border' would be a little more accurate
> > than 'brim, edge'.
> Not really. 'Bræmme' has a connotation of 'something washed up the
> beach', in particular deposits on both sides of a stream, cf. Du.
> berm "kerb, shoulder of the road", and cf. Bremen. Try googling it.
> There isn't a good translation for it in English, AFAIK, so I went
> for the etymological match instead. It's a minor point anyway.
>
> > > referring to the location at the coastal edge on the
> > > Randers Fjord.'
> >
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60944
> >
> > > 'perþ- (OE peorð beside cweorð = OIr.
> > > q(u)e(i)rt/c(u)e(i)rt, Ogham q)'
> >
> > > How did the kW- variant reach Jutland?
> >
> > If the word is the same as Swed. <kvard> 'linning, bräm,
> > garnering', SAOB thinks that it's from MLG <querder>,
> > <querdel>, <quarder>, <korder>; perhaps originally with the
> > sense 'neckband', from a Gmc. *kwerþra- 'neck, throat'. So
> > does Hellquist, who mentions MLG <(hals)quarder>, and
> > <querdar> 'rand, infattning', whence Swed. dial. <kvard>
> > 'bred fåll, linning', Norw. <kvarde>, Older Dan. <korde>.
>
> Hellquist's text
> http://runeberg.org/svetym/0462.html
> is
> 'Kvarken, smalaste delen af Botniska
> viken, egentl.: strupen, halsen, till sv.
> dial. kvärk, fsv. kværk = isl., da. kverk,
> mlty. querke, quarka, fhty. querca, besl.
> med lat. gurges (genit. -itis)
> vattenvirvel, gurgulio, strupe, luftrör, sanskr.
> gargara-, svalg, virvel; av en ieur. rot
> gWerg, gurg, som sannolikast är ljud-
> härmande (jfr t. ex. ital. gargatta, gor-
> gozza, strupe, spän., portug. garganta ds.
> ävensom under gurgla) el., såsom vanl.,
> men troligen med orätt antages, redu-
> plikationsform till ie. gWer, sluka, vartill
> bl. a. lat. vora:re, sluka (av *gWor-), litau.
> gérti, dricka, fslav. grUlo, hals, ävensom
> mhty. querder m., agn (ty. köder). -
>
> Nära besl. med det senare är sannol. mlty.
> (hals)quarder, querdar m., rand, infatt-
> ning, varifrån sv. dial. kvard, bred fåll,
> linning, no. kvarde, ä. da. korde; i så
> fall egentl.: hals, sedan: halskrage o. d.,
> alltså med samma betyd.-utveckling som
> i krage.'
>
> sannol(ikt) = likely. Hellquist doesn't seem too convinced here of a
> derivation "swallow" > "edge". Nor am I.
>
> Is it a relative of cuid/peth with loss of -r-?
> K.H. Jackson, The Pictish LanguageTorsten
> '"The word was earlier pett; it meant a parcel of land or
> farmland ...; and it is a PCeltic word, related to
> peth "thing" Welsh
> pez "piece" Breton
> *petia > Gaulish
> pièce "piece" French
> and more distantly to
>
> cuid "portion" Gaelic
> The Gaulish word, borrowed into Vulgar Latin in France, occurs
> in legal documents in the phrase
> petia terrae "a parcel of land"
> exactly in the sense of our pett."
> '
> cf.
> 'gwadn > Middle Welsh
> gwadn, gwaddn (m/f) "sole of the foot,
> shoe, foundation" Welsh
> truit "foot" Old Cornish
> goden truit (gloss) "planta" Old Cornish
> guodon /gwodn/ (gloss)"plantariium .i. planta" Old Breton
>
> *woda:tV- > Proto-British
> gwadawt > Middle Welsh
> gwaddod (m) "sediment, deposit, dregs" Welsh
> guthot > Old Cornish
> godhes id. Middle Cornish
> gutdot id. Old Breton
> The etymology is not clear. [TP: loanword]
> '
> all from
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/pd.html
> strengthening my suspicion that it is a 'water-word', a derivation
> from the *(a)n,W- "water" root
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Op.html
>