From: george knysh
Message: 60891
Date: 2008-10-14
--- On Tue, 10/14/08, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
From: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
Subject: [tied] Re: Belgs
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 4:34 PM
--- In cybalist@... s.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 10/13/08, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
>
> Okulicz' scenario is so complicated I still struggle to comprehend it.
> Joz^ef S^avli/Matej Bor don't have any.
> Myself, I won't make up my mind before I get my head around the many
> details in Okulicz' scenario.
>
> Traditionally Venetic has been associated with Urnfield cultures.
>
> Torsten
>
> GK: From Shchukin (1997) "The birth of the Slavs", section 4,
> par. 56:
> "Toponyms with the root "vent","vend" , "venn", "vind", and sim.,
> are generally scattered across Europe sufficiently widely,and this,
> as some contend, might witness that all "Veneti" are the remnants
> of some (the most frequent suggestion-- Illyrian) Old European
> populations, at one time inhabiting wide expanses of Europe
> (Okulicz 1984). A believable hypothesis, even if it has as yet no
> historical or archaeological confirmation. "
>
> He goes on: (par. 57) "I can say nothing concerning the affinity or
> connection of the Adriatic and Armorican Veneti, systematic
> research on this issue being unknown to me. But the concentration
> of data on the Baltic and Adriatic Veneti, at the two ends of the
> Amber route, may not be sheer coincidence. K. Lamberg-Krolovski
> (1971) surmised as to this the possibility of a transference of the
> appellative along the Amber route. The amber traffickers being
> Adriatic Veneti, whose name was subsequently adopted by local
> populations. Such instances are known in history.
The problem is that not only the Wenet- name, but several river names
are identical too (in the Wenet- areas around Sambia and on the
Adria). That only happens if the language of those who lived on the
rivers, at least those who sailed of the rivers, were the same.
****GK: Independently of Shchukin's "amber road" theory.Qu.: (1) What is the correlation between the "vent" et sim. roots (A) and these identical river names (B)? Is it possible that (A) represents a process different from {B)?
(2) With respect to some points of your discussion with Arnaud. I am reminded that the presence of certain appellatives actually represents enclaves within the territory of other populations. For instance in the area of West Ukraine populated by "Croats" in the early middle ages there are a number of "Pecheneg" toponyms representing infiltrations. Earlier "Dulebi" is interpreted in the same way. Many other examples could be given. Is it possible that "vent" et sim. represent similar infiltrations?****