Re: Suffix -ock

----- Original Message -----
From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Suffix -ock


>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "afyangh" <fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe this has already been dealt with before,
>> but I have not been able to find a reference in the archives.
>>
>> What is to be thought about the suffix -ock, that appears in
>> hill-ock, bull-ock, etc ?
>>
>> Substrate, which substrate, possibly Indo-European or not ?
>
> The suffix *-Vk in Germanic Kuhn ascribes to NWBlock. Try 'paddock' in
> the archives.
>
> The interesting question is whether English picked that and other NWB
> suffixes and glosses up already on the continent, or in England. The
> latter would mean that the Angles and Saxons also encountered a
> non-Celtic language on the island. I find them also in various Insular
> Celtic languages, Chris and Brian vehemently dispute this and prefer
> instead that they are borrowed directly from English (but some occur
> in Breton too).
>
> BTW, George claimed recently that the Belgae invaded Belgium with the
> Germani from the east. BTW, see
> Files > Maps from Udolph > 01 bholgh.jpg
> Food for thought. It would make sense of Tacitus' claim that the
> Aestii's language was similar to that in Britain (which T. in Agricola
> relates to Belgic).
> > Torsten
==========
Thank you, Torsten,
I was expecting you would be one of the first to react to my request.
I'm looking at the nord-saami "substrate" of A. Aikio.
As usual, things get more complicated when everything is analyzed in detail.
Apart from the desperate cases, which resist any kind of comparison,
Baltic does not account for everything, even though it's a good track.
At least three words have -ock > -ag as a suffix.
It does not seem to be part of Saami standard morphological devices.

As NWB expansion and real nature (language or family, IE or not)
I'm afraid your NWB chéri has to be expanded into Scandinavia.
A very intriguing word is north saami bov-ttäs^ = puffin.
pov / puff-
A north scandinavian word = a pre-celtic word of Cornwall ?
No conclusion, just more food for thought.

And there is the word for peat
bal-sa = pedel = peta

North saami is very important in that discussion because these words cannot
have carried by Germanic languages.
North Saami pre-dates Germanic.
They must have been borrowed where they are observed from some pre-Germanic
source.

Arnaud
==========