Re: Marduk = Marut = Marutash ?

From: kishore patnaik
Message: 60698
Date: 2008-10-09

Thiis a clear indication that you have no knowledge. Now, I understand why the others shout so
much on you.

Varuna was an asuric God. By the time of  Rg Veda, he lost much of his prominence. Yet, from the 35(at least, two thirds of them being along with his "double", Mitra)  or so hymns that are dedicated to him in RV, his character is understood

The anthropomorphism of Varuna's personality is more  fully developed on the side of moral than on the physical side. [1} His face is Agni and his eye, Sun - something akin to later Siva.

His antiquity is understood if you see that he sits on strewn grass [2}  ( RV1.26, 5.72) and Bruce Lincoln, while describing the elements of the first sacrifice, identifies strewn grass as one of the main elements.  No other god sits on strewn grass.

He is called Raja (with the meaning to proceed in a straight line, Something akin to Rex- this has been discussed earlier here) and more importantly, king of both god and men. (10.132, 2.27), of the whole world (5.85) and all that exists (7.87) He is a self dependent ruler (2.28)  Above all, he is called Universal monarch or Samraj.

The development of monarchy of Gods is evident in that Varuna, then Agni and finally Indra were ascribed with this title.  By the time of Puranic times, it is Vishnu who has become reciepient of this title and in time ,  King has come to be seen as the embodiment of Vishnu- in a total reverse of stand mostly taken by Dharma sutras that King is a servant of his people and he has no power even to legislate against the Dharma Sutras.

 Sovereignty (ksatra)  is ascribed to Varuna more often to than anyone else in RV and perhaps, this is not ascribed to Indra. Ksatriya, as  understood in RV, means Ruler and it is ascribed to Varuna, always except once.

His antiquity is also clear in that he has no myths surviving by the time of  RV, as against Indra.

In any case, that Varuna is the Supreme Lord , equivalent or same as  Dyaus. while the scholars like to think of Varuna has supplanted Dyaus and take Varuna as more younger to Dyaus, there is no proof for the same in the scriptures. 


Varuna has turned into a rain God much later and then, he became the over lord of waters.  I do not think RV refers to him as a Rain God, though it says he makes the Sun walk (the half pertaining ot Dark) and sometimes, obsures it with cloud and rain.

The OIT is most strongly supported by Varuna.  He is not attested in Iran, yet he presents himself in Mitanni evidence. 

Hope this helps,

Kishore patnaik



 



On 10/8/08, Arnaud Fournet <fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kishore patnaik" <kishorepatnaik09@...>
>
> Not always. Varuna was the supreme God in Indian pantheon, before
> Indra was.
> Kishore patnaik
========
There is no supreme God in Indian Pantheon.
All entities inherited from PIE or autochthonous religions are fused into
one general deity that has different manifestations.
Indra is one of them.
Arnaud
=========

> Yet Varuna had nothing to do with storm and weather.
> Kishore patnaik
=======
What about the water-blocking monster ?
This has nothing to do with weather ?
Arnaud
========