From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 60603
Date: 2008-10-06
----- Original Message -----
From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> ============
> > A ST root cognate to PAA *p_l = PIE *p_l should be *p_y
> > otherwise, I consider it does not work.
> Should I infer from that that if a reconstructed ST root doesn't
> follow the rule you have set up, it is highly dubious?
============
Yes,
This rule works for many words, full, flat, shoulder, etc.
Words that do not follow this rule are highly dubious from _my_ point of
view.
If you have something else to propose, please do.
Arnaud
============
Edwin G. Pulleyblank
Outline of Classical Chinese Grammar, pp 10-11
...
(b) Alternation between Middle Chinese voiceless and voiced initials
is often found in verbs with transitive and intransitive or neuter
meaning respectively, e.g., jiàn .. (EMC kenh) 'see,' also read xiàn
(EMC Genh < *g-) 'appear' (now written .. in this meaning); zhu ..,
.. (EMC tc,uawk) 'to attach, enjoin,' shu .. (EMC dz,uawk) 'be
attached, belong.' This probably reflects a prefix *a-, cognate to
Tibetan ha-c^hun^ and Burmese a(?) (Pulleyblank 1973a, 1989)
========
This prefix *a is most probably Gh- a voiced velar in Tibetan.
I'm not sure this prefix is the cause of voicedness in Chinese,
Another possibility is a nasal N-
And your citations are a good example of what not to do :
jiàn .. (EMC kenh) 'see,' hence Initial is velar stop
xiàn (EMC Genh < *g-) 'appear' : hence velar fricative
Two parameters change : voice + fashion.
With that kind of method, theos is ST ha + dyew.
No problem, everything works.
Arnaud
========
> Or you should change your rule.
==========
I can see no reason to.
Arnaud
========
> Well, then the master was not very good and the disciple does not
> look like an improvement.
> Is there anything in ST studies we should remember Benedict for ?
>
=========
>From Matisoff's Preface in his
>Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman
>While there is certainly room for tinkering with a few details of
>Benedict's reconstructive scheme for Proto-Tibeto-Burman (PTB), the
>major features of the system itself remain basically unassailable.
==========
I'm afraid I don't share this optimism !
I'm not even convinced Tibetan and Burmese are close relatives.
You never find a clean cognate.
Arnaud
=======
A better
understanding of the variational processes at work in TB and ST
word-families has enabled us to decide more accurately whether sets of
forms that bear partial phonosemantic resemblances to each other are
really variants of the same etymon or etymologically independent.
============
Note the words : variational, partial, resemblance, variant.
I'm afraid this claim is not supported.
Everything works in Matisoff 's "modelization".
Arnaud
==========
Onthe Chinese side, the successors to Karlgren have made profound
changes in the reconstructive scheme for Old Chinese, and it is no
exaggeration to say that the field of historical Sinology is now going
through a period of ferment. Still, almost all of STC's suggested
Chinese comparanda for PTB etyma have gone unchallenged.'
Torsten
==========
More changes in OC are predictable !
Arnaud
==========
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