Re: Negau

>
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
> > and the idea that the Middle East was not the cradle of
> > civilization and agriculture, but a stopover point for the
> > civilization and agriculture of the Far East, ie. the drowned
> > continent of Sundaland (that was after I read Oppenheimer' s 'Out
> > of Eden'). There is something fishy about the polycentric (rather
> > bicentric) view of world history where bronze was invented twice,
> > cereal cultivated twice, animals domesticated twice.
> >
>
> I have to agree about that last statement, only since I wasn't there
> at the time I am not going to go so far as to profess this idea.
> The first statement, well, I believe in modern geology and plate
> tectonics so I would have to give little credence to the idea of a
> drowned continent of Sundaland (but I will look for "Out of Eden"
> in the library when I get a chance).

The sea between the islands in Indonesia, with the exception of the
Wallace line, is less than 100 m deep. That means it would have been
solid ground in the last ice age, and was drowned in three floods.
...

> Only when it's based on unsustained nonsense. We have solid evidence

for the Middle East being the first cradle of grain-based agriculture
and no evidence for grain-based agriculture in the Far East until
much later.

Now that is unsustained. Check the archives for 'millet' and 'rice'. eg.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/13966
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/42285
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/42758

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rye
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/52613
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/57638

> We do have evidence of early sedentary agriculture in New Guinea

based on bananas, plantains, sago, possibly sugarcane (I read
something that claimed sugarcane originated there, but most of what
I've seen links it to Bangladesh and surrounding countries).

New Guinea is a refuge. If those guys have it, the victors would
certainly too.

> In much of the Old World, the idea of agriculture and metals

themselves, rather than the technologies, probably gave rise to
separate creations of technologies and domestications.

I wish I knew what that meant.

> Bronze and grain based agriculture were most certainly discovered

separately in the New World. The Peruvians discovered bronze
technology and it reached Mexico shortly before the Spaniards arrived.

So if Austronesians had those technologies, they could be carriers.
I've always been puzzled at the idea of the elder on Easter Island
telling the young folks: 'No, you can't go island-hoppping like we
did, cause then you'll hit a continent instead and that wouldn't be
island-hopping'.


Torsten