--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Morris <jonatas9@...>
wrote:
> Have you checked Pokorny p. 166 -- original IE idea: cut with
> sharp object, but takes on meaning of 'quarrel' in Celtic (as
> well as Baltic/Slavic). Must say I find his semantics rather too
> relaxed for my taste -- but it's there.
What I find in that page of Pokorny's dictionary is the following (I
quote from Starostin and Lubotsky's recognized machine-translation
into English):
http://dnghu.org/indoeuropean.html
<< PIE *bhre:i-, *bhri:>- 'to pierce, cut with something sharp'
(Note: Extension from *bher-)...
With s-extension here... M.Ir. bress 'din, fuss, noise, fight,
struggle'..., M.Bret. bresel 'fight', Bret. bresa 'quarrel'...
Hereupon probably also Cymr. brwydr 'fight, struggle', O.Ir.
briathar 'word' [Starostin & Lubotsky's added gloss: *'argument'],
as *bhrei-tra:- 'quarrel, argument' (to Cymr. brwyd 'torn,
perforates'), compare Lit. baìrti 'scold, chide', refl. 'be
quarrelsome', Old Church Slavic brati 'fight'... >>
I cannot discern any -g extension of the root here that may have
resulted into a Vulg. Lat. term briga cognate with the above words
or loaned from a Celtic reflex of this root.
> In Portuguese (Brazilian at least) the meaning of brigar is always
> quarrel, fight.
In Castilian too (bregar). And, to complicate things further, the
dictionary of the Real Academia Española considers the verb bregar
as derived from Gothic brikan 'to break', but doesn't provide any
etymology for brega 'fight'.
The situation is different as to French dictionaries, which, though
postulating that the verb briguer and the underlying noun brigue may
derive from Gothic brikan 'to break', indicate that both the verb
and the noun have meanings which are far removed from '(to) fight'
and which, on the contrary, correspond to the earliest attested
meaning of the It. verb brigare as 'to deal, to frequent (someone),
to meet in small groups, to intrigue (secret plans) to obtain
something' -- which, as I have already noticed many times, is
semantically disjointed from the earliest attested meaning of It.
briga! Thus we have in French:
http://www.lesensdesmots.com/docs/000008638.html
<< BRIGUE:
1 Manoeuvre par laquelle, poursuivant quelque objet, on engage des
personnes dans ses intérêts.
2. La réunion des gens qui coopèrent à la brigue.
BRIGUER:
1. Tâcher d'obtenir par brigue.
2. Solliciter, rechercher avec ardeur. >>
> Frankly I can't see why it couldn't go back further into V.Latin.
It's not Latin. May I speak out frankly? THIS IS TOO A BIG MESS!!
Thanks and best regards,
Francesco