Re: Sin once more

> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ > wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> [Rick McCallister]
> > > > Celticists derive Parisii < *kwVr-- "pot", hence "the pot
> > > > heads, the kettle kin" (vel sim off the top of my head),
> > > > right?
> > >
> > > Yes. That's because Celtic lost p-.

> No, it's because P-Celts transformed /kw/ to /p/. '

There are several conditions without which this traditional proposal
wouldn't have been made, so 'because' without qualification is imprecise.
Let me put it differently:
Par-isii "those on the Oise" seems like a nice parallel to Are-morica
"the land at the sea", since the *Eisa > Oise (the documented ancient
name is Isara, but as Kuhn points out some side form *I:sa vel sim.
should be popsited to account for the present name) is slightly north
of where they are found when we first hear of them. If they spoke
Belgic, and Belgic is NWB then the initial p- is no problem, but to
be expected. However, if one believes the Belgae spoke Celtic and that
it is a defining characteristic of Celtic that it lost p-, the one is
forced to look for some other etymology (eg. the Carrs have that name
because they have a car).

I'm just pointing out the Celticist explanation I've seen and why they seem to have arrived at that conclusion.

Chris, what do you know about this?

> The root I've seen is something like *kwVr-, or something like
> *kwar- in Celtic and is also the root of Scots Corrie "kettle,
> pot". So Celtic *kwar- > P-Celtic *par --which, I believe, is also
> the root of Spanish peroles "pots and pans" --usually used only in
> the plural in Central America, and is perceived as a hillbilly
> expression. I think paella is from the same root. And there's a
> French word for skillet (at least on the trilingual labels for
> skillets in the US), which I forget off the top of my head that
> also seems cognate.
>

Hm.
Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog:
'kar', n., neut. ["bowl, vessel, cauldron"]
ODa., Nw. id., Nw.dial. kjer, Sw. kar, ON ker (with R-umlaut),
Goth. kas, OS bi:-kar "beehive", MLG kar "platter, basket",
OHG char, OE ceren;
from PGmc *kaza- of disputed provenance.
Most likely an old Wanderwort:
assyr. ka:su "bowl", arab. ka's, Hebr. ko:s "beaker",
Caucasian kas^ "bowl"

Torsten