Re: Sin once more

> > [in fact,
> > the Irish migration legends are for the most part medieval
> > literary inventions based on Continental pseudo-histories -
> > anyone who would treat them as genuine folk memory is out of
> > their mind!
>
> I must be out of my mind.

You don't have to tell me twice,

> > We can easily detect the trail of transmission from early
> > medieval Spanish authors such as Isidore and Orosius to the Irish
> > authors who compiled books such as the Lebor Gabala Erenn]
>
> I can easily detect the myth of Napoleon in 19th century newspapers
> and journals. It follows that he didn't exist.

You really don't get it, do you? The Lebor Gabala Erenn has been
carefully studied by a number of scholars and they have determined
that it is not an ancient text, but rather a medieval literary
invention, contstructed from several different sources, including:
native (and often contradictory) genealogies, some vestigial pagan
Irish mythological material (filtered by Christian authors), Biblical
genealogies, and early medieval pseudo-historical texts (which are
wildly inaccurate and often fantastic in nature, thus the "pseudo-"
tag). The sections of the LGE concerned with the migration from Spain
of the Milesians was ultimately based on the wiritngs of the medieval
Spanish author Orosius and Isidore.

Let me quote Donnchadh Ó Corráin ("Creating The Past: The Early Irish
Genealogical Tradition"):
http://www.ucc.ie/chronicon/ocorr.htm

"24. The earliest working out of the Isidorian schema is to be found
in the higher genealogical reaches of two historical poems on the
Leinster dynasties, already referred to: (i) `Nuadu Necht ní dámair
anfhlaith' and
(ii) Énna, Labraid, lúad cáich'. These parts of the poems deal with
the ascent of the Leinstermen from the common ancestor, to an
ancestor of all the Irish (Míl of Spain) and thence to Japhet, Noah
and Adam. While most of the fifty or so names in the line of ascent
are common to both poems, there are some important differences---they
do not agree about the name of the son of Gomer, son of Japhet, from
whom the Irish descend; one has Gáedel Glas (eponymous ancestor of
the Goídil `the Irish'), the other not; the one knows nothing of
Fóenius Farsaid and Nél, two important figures in the subsequent
development of the origin-legend. These are very unlikely to be the
work of a single author. Rather, they represent variants of a broad
historical construct in the making in the monastic schools, in the
late seventh century. One of the nodal characters in this legend is
Míl of Spain, a transparent literary invention (= Miles Hispaniae,
`Soldier of Spain'). It was believed that the Irish discovered
Ireland from Brigantia in Spain. As Rolf Baumgarten has recently
shown, the source of this legend is a reading of Orosius (I ii 71 and
80) in the light of Isidore (Etymologiae XIV vi 6)."

> > [Thus he asks us to ignore the few historical sources from the
> > time period that we now possess, as well as ignore]
>
> Like you recommend we ignore the Lebor Gabala Erenn?

Are yuo really that daft??!! The LGE is a pseudo-historical mish-mash
composed in the middle ages - Gildas' De Excidio WAS COMPOSED IN THE
6th CENTURY and discusses events that had just occurred/were still
ocurring at the time of its writing!!!

> > [The paucity of Celtic words in English can be explained not only
> > by the fact that Celtic was low-prestige to the Germanic
> > invaders, thus
> > there was no incentive to use it,
>
> American English has a number of Native American loans, many more
> than English has Celtic ones.

My lord, can you really not see that these two situations were
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT?!Have you conducted ANY sort of research on
language replacement?

> > plus large areas of Britain were apparently de-populated [both

due

> > to war, emigration to the Continent or Western Britain, and
> > plague/famine], thus there was no one around to teach the

newcomers

> > Brittonic in the Eastern parts of the island.
>
> How come Western Britain wasn't?

Because the Western Britons were tougher?

> > Additionally, when they reached the Roman cities of Britain,
> > Germanic newcomers were more likely to have encountered Latin
> > speakers than Brittonic]
>
> Why was that not the case in Western Britain?

There was less Roman influence in certain parts of Britain.

> > > > In fact, there is little-to-no doubt among modern linguists
> > > > that the Belgae spoke a Celtic dialect. -
>
> That would be those who can't read German?

Such as?

> > > So Kuhn is old-fashioned? That is a serious accusation.
> >
> > Well, if he thinks the Belgae didn't speak Celtic...he might be
> > daft.
>
> You won't know till you read him. I wonder if I should translate his
> most important articles?

Ich habe Kuhn gelesen.

> > > > the onomastic material alone supports this fact.
>
> Which onomastic material?

Umm...the continental and insular Belgic onomastic material!

> > Funny that only tin-foil-hat types find any validity in his shoddy
> > linguistic research.
>
> Who is which here?

Certainly not I.

- Chris Gwinn