Re: V-, B-

From: tgpedersen
Message: 59356
Date: 2008-06-21

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Orbis Latinus
> > http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/Graesse/orblatv.html
> > has
> >
> > no names in B- for Venezia
> >
> > one name in B- for Vienna
> > Vindobona, Vendobona, Vindomana, Vindomina, Juliobona, Flaviana
> > castra, Vienna, Vienna Austriae od. Fluviorum, Vienni (Wi.),
> > Wiena, -nna, Winna, Byenna (Winensis), Wien, Stadt, Niederösterr.
> >
> > no names in B- for Villach
> > Vaconium, Villas, -lacum, Viccacum (Villacensis),
> > Villach, Stadt, Österr. (Kärnten)
> >
> > and the rest of names of these towns the Slavic and most other
> > names outside of this 'central Slavic' area are in V-. The Latin-
> > speaking part of the Roman empire was much bigger than that.
> >
> > So, I'm not convinced it was the influence of Vulgar Latin.
> > Actually I'm fishing for something Venetic.
>
> Try fishing in the Vidunia, now the Weidling, flowing into the
> Danube near Vienna. The name is formed like *Perk(w)unia, borrowed
> into Celtic and transmitted to us as Hercynia, also into Germanic
> as Gothic <faírguni> 'mountain, mountain range' and the Latinized
> OHG place-name Fergunna. The /u/ was short and took the accent, as
> we see in the action of Verner's Law on the Gmc. forms.

cf.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/51061
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/20843
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/5773


> The root of Vidunia appears to be *widhu- 'hardwood'. The
> abundance of hardwoods around Vienna is favorable for producing
> wine, hence the Weinviertel north of Vienna.

I feel that *-únja ending is too weird to be placed after something as
normal a *widhu-.


> Forget whatever I said about *Weneto:s speaking Alteuropäisch. I
> convinced myself over the course of last week that Alteuropäisch is
> a western offshoot of unsatemized Indo-Iranian.
> This simple assumption explains not only the predominant
> /a/-vocalism

The simple assumption of PPIE *a > PIE *e/o/zero and several waves of
PIE, starting with a PPIE waves rolling over Europe from the east does
it too.

> but also several other problems regarding the morphology, lexicon,
> and geography of the river-names. Details will follow in a week or
> two, assuming I can avoid misplacing my references.

Looking forward to that.

> In this new view, the self-name *Weneto:s 'Beloved Ones' was used
> by native Western IE-speakers to distinguish themselves from the
> Eastern invaders. Indeed, the name could have served as a
> shibboleth, since an Indo-Iranian-speaker posing as a native would
> have pronounced *Wenetos as *Wanatas, giving himself away with his
> lack of /e/.

Not among the Vandals he wouldn't. Northern Jutland could be a refuge
area (but with strong trade). In the end, they did go *a > *e/o/zero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendsyssel


> The notion that Indo-Iranian-speakers inhabited pre-Celtic Britain
> might be jarring to some; hopefully stiff upper lips can be kept.

Let's see how Brian manages.


Torsten