Re: Delabialization and apical/uvular

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Jarrette" <anjarrette@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This is getting interesting.
> > From Brøndum-Nielsen: Dialekter og dialektforskning:
> >
> > 'I Bornholmsk
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornholm
> > Moment 10
> > c) [r] is in the elderly apical, in the younger generally uvular
> > Moment 19 Delabialization occurs (esp. before /w/) [a few
> > examples]
> >
> > II Zealand
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealand
> > Moment 10
> > [r] is still in anlaut apical in the older generation. Around
> > Roskilde /r/ sometimes disappears in auslaut ...
> > Moment 19 Standard Danish e, i and ø, y before w is delabialized
> > /ew/ /iw/ in the most of Sjælland
> >
> > III Fyn
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funen
> > Moment 10
> > Apical [r] still used by the older generation
> > Moment 19
> > Delabializaton occurs some places in East Fyn and West Fyn before
> > /w/ and before /m/. Labialization is particularly strong [on S
> > Fyn]
> >
> > IV Jutland
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutland
> > Moment 10
> > Apical [r] is used at least by old people everywhere in Jutland;
> > however Djursland from ancient times had uvular /R/
> > A more or less cacuminal /l/, in its occurrence corresponding to
> > supradental /l/ exists in eastern Jutland to N of Randers
> > Moment 19
> > Delabialization in full extent exists in a central east Jutland
> > area (Djurslands Sønder- (ie. southern) herred,
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djursland
> > Mols
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mols
> > Anholt
> > http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anholt
> > northern Samsø...)
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sams%C3%B8
> > Before /m/, east Jutland south of Horsens has delabialization.'
> >
> > So the only place in Denmark apical /r/ has not been documented as
> > existing before present uvular /R/ is the above coastal areas
> > facing the same section of the Kattegat; Samsø used to be where
> > the leding fleet towards England was assembled.
>
> When are we talking about?

The book is from 1951, but based on lectures at the Univ. of
Copenhagen held in 1920.

> All the examples you gave cite apical /r/ as existing in the older
> generation

Except 'however Djursland from ancient times had uvular /R/'.
Djursland is the 'nose' on Jutland.

> -- the present older generation or the past older generation?

Presumably relative to 1920.

> And are these examples drawn from the coastal areas facing the same
> section of the Kattegat?

I'm afraid I got a little carried away here. It is the areas with
delabialization of /ü/ and /ö/ to /i/ and /e/ (in Djurslands
Sønderherred, Mols, Anholt, Northern Samsø everywhere, in East and
west Fyn and East Jutland south of Horsens before /m/ and /w/) which
face the same section of Kattegat, uvular /R/ exists of old only in
the northernmost of those areas (Djursland).

> > Delabialization exists in the same area. What was the status on
> > the start of delabialization in English dialects we discussed
> > recently?
> >
> >
> Delabialization of what are we talking about?
> Delabialization of /r/?

Of /ü/ /ö/ to /i/ /e/.


Torsten