Re: The oddness of Gaelic words in p-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Ernout-Meillet on mancus:
> > > 'mancus, -a, -um: manchot, infirme de la main;
> > > cf. Dig.21,1,2, sciendum scaeuam non esse morbosum, praeterquam
> > > si imbecillitate dextrae ualidius sinistra utatur; sed hunc non
> > > scaeuam, sed mancum esse dicimus.
> > > Puis plus généralement "mutilé, estropié". - Attesté depuis Pl.
> > > Demeuré dans les l. romanes sous forme d'adj., et dans le verbe
> > > dérivé du type "manquer", M.L.5285;
> > > germ.: m.néerl. mank, ags. bemancian.
> > > Le bret. manc "manchot" peut être emprunté au français.
> > > e:manco:, -a:s: rendre manchot (Labien, ap. Sen. Contr.5, 33
> > > fin); mancaster(Gl.), manca:tus (Lex.Sal. ).
> > > De *man + ko-s, avec un suffixe caractéristique des tares
> > > [deficiencies] physiques; cf.pecca:re ?'
> > >
> > > The French verb would have been *manca:re in Latin,
> > > corresponding to pecca:re. So we have *man-k- in MDutch, Breton,
> > > OE and 'Popular Latin', with that pesky /a/ everywhere. My
> > > guess: loan from Venetic:
> > > and so would consequently *pek-k- < *ped-k- be, just as these
> > >

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/KuhnText/01paik-betr_gen.html

> > >
> > > with the exception, of course, of the Germanic forms in f-
> > > (which would be pre-Grimm loans).
> >
> > To more to make this mess even more intractable (from the
> > traditional point of view):
> > Germ. Mangel "lack, deficiency"
> > Du. verminkt "crippled, disfigured"
> >
> But are those loandwords from Latin? See English mangle.
> Contrast Spanish mangonear "manipulate", manga/o "handle"
>

DEO has
mangel, loan from German Mangel, a sideform to MHG manc "deficiency,
damage", which like eg. Lith. meñkas "insignificant", Sanskr. maná:k
"a small amount" belongs to PIE *men-k-, an extension of *men- "small;
diminish; single".

which makes this definition incompatible with the identification with
*man- "hand". Unless *man-k- was first formed after this recipe, then,
by popular etymology, its root was identified with *man- "hand" and
then *ped-k- (*pad-k-?) "injured in the foot, walking unsteadily" or
the like formed in the same language by opposition.
Then in some language *pad-k- > *paik- (unstressed *pik-?) to account
for the *paik-/*pik- forms in
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/KuhnText/01paik-betr_gen.html
Lith. piktas "evil" might have received the 'thorn treatment': *pit-k-

> *pikt-.

The -i- in Dutch verminkt might be caused by PIE *-enK- > PGmc.
*-inK-, thus from the 'normal ablaut' form *menk- of the 'a-language'
form *mank-. Or -ar/-ur- language i/a/u/ 'ablaut'?

Sw. mangla "mangle". In Danish only in 'manglebræt', a board once used
for ironing.
http://www.viborghistorie.dk/post.asp?m=2&id=83

BTW, come to think of it, Picti itself begins with P- ?


Torsten