Re: PIE initial *a

----- Original Message -----
From: "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: PIE initial *a


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> >>
> >> Piotr, we all know that in -*ak^-, the 'Laryngeal' Theory supposes
> > that *H2 colors -*ék^- to -*ák^-.
> >>
> >> My question is: does the 'Laryngeal' Theory assume that _all_ PIE
> > initial
> >> *a- stems from this combination only or does it regard some initial
> > *a- as
> >> being from an original short *a-?
> >
> >> Patrick
> >>
> >
> >
> > All initial a- are considered to be from h2e- due to the following
> > PIE Root Constraint:
> > -> a PIE Root always starts with a Non-Vocalic.
> >
> > Marius
> >
> > ***
> >
> > Patrick:
> >
> > So, Marius, if I supposed the initial were *H which had no coloring
> > properties, i.e. *Hak^-, there would be no problem?
> >
> > ***
>
> You should take the whole thing from the start.
>
> *a is a rare vowel which conspicuously shows up only at the beginning of
> words.

***

Patrick:

Wrong, as usual, Arnaud.

*bha:- (2x), *da:-, *dha:l-, *ga:u-, *ka:-, *la:-, *ma:-, *na:u-, *pa:-,
*ra:s-, *sa:, *ta:-, *wa:-.

***


> #a-
> *e is a frequent vowel that appears everywhere, including at the beginning
> of words.
>
> It is therefore extremely interesting to suppose that *a is just *e
> preceded
> by some consonant.

***

Patrick:

The parallel examples *ple:-, *pla:-, *plo:-, suggests strongly that the
pre-PIE inventory of vowels included *e, *a, and *o.


***


> Let's call it H assuming that H+e = a
> Because e ALSO appears at the beginning of words,
> you need two H
> H1e = e
> H2e = a
>
> Apart from accounting for the oddity of *a,
> the next advantage of the theory is that all roots share a standard shape
> (s-)C_C

***

Patrick:

Roots in the Vocalic Theory have the shapes *CV and *CVC (including *CV:).

***


> The problem with your half-vocalic half laryngeal theory
> with a e o as vowels and only one H
> This theory does not explain why :
> 1. a appears mainly at the beginning of words.
> 2. a plays no morphological role, only e and o do.

***

Patrick:

The Vocalic Theory cannot be expected to explain what is not.

1. *a does not "mainly" occur at the beginning of words (*#a); that is
ignorance of the data.

2. *e and *o do not play morphological roles, *A does.

***



> The standard theory accounts for all these features with an overpowering
> simplicity
> and a minimalist set of 3 laryngeals.
> It's no wonder everybody has accepted it,
> It's obvious, it's simple,
> It clarifies about everything nicely and elegantly.

***

Patrick:

I have raised several objections to the 'Laryngeal' Theory in

http://geocities.com/proto-language/OneLaryngealVocalicTheory.htm

If you want to dispute any of them, pick one.

***

> There is no way back to vocalic theories.
>
> Your theory is not _new_
> it's the old approach to PIE
>
> Arnaud

***

Patrick:

Wrong, as usual, Arnaud.

The Vocalic Theory is new.

If you maintain it is _not_, specify who proposed it before me.


***