Re: An Italic Europe?

--- dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen"
> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've been wondering how to fit in the Venetic
> culture in present
> > Poland and the Kuhn's 'western Wend-' names
> > with the Adriatic Veneti and the Italic languages
> in general
> >
>

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/57554

> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Jastorf (and later Przeworsk) was a Germanic
> expansion.
> > Hallstatt was a Celtic expansion.
> > Was Urnfield a Venetic expansion?
> > Are Krahe's Old European names Venetic?
>
> Probably older than Urnfield. See P.R. Kitson,
> "British and European
> River-Names", TrPhS 94(2):73-118 [1996], esp. 103-4:
>
> "... Bell-beakers are in fact the _only_
> archaeological phenomenon of
> any period of prehistory with a comparably wide
> spread to that of
> river-names in the western half of Europe. The
> presumption must I
> think be that Beaker Folk were the vector of
> _alteuropaisch_ river-
> names to most of western Europe. Rivers in the base
> _Arg-_, which we
> have seen there is cause to think was not already in
> use at the
> earliest stage of the river-naming system, and which
> therefore should
> be associated with such a vector if one existed, fit
> their
> distribution exceptionally well. ..."
>
> > It would explain those 'wester Wend-' names.
>
> See W. Hazlitt, _The Classical Gazetteer_ [1851],
> s.v. Veneti:
>
> "... It is to be observed, that the various peoples
> in Paphlagonia,
> Italy, Gaul, and Germany, who were anciently called
> Veneti or Heneti,
> all occupied the same description of country --
> marshy districts on
> the coast. ..."
>
> That is, the various peoples known as Veneti, or
> *Weneto:s 'Beloved
> Ones' vel sim., occupied marginal areas in
> protohistorical times;
> this is consistent with the relics of the
> Bell-Beaker expansion at
> the end of the 3rd mill. BCE, mostly superseded and
> assimilated by
> later expansions.
>
> > How about Wend- names in Britain?
>
> Does Hans Kuhn mention any? If there are none, the
> presumption is
> that there were no enclaves of peoples still calling
> themselves
> Veneti in Britain, all of them having been
> assimilated by Celts.
>
> Douglas G. Kilday
>

How about Gwynedd?
And could Gaelic fiana somehow be related?
Also, I think I read somewhere that the Breton Veneti
had some tie to Ireland --but it was a while back and
I forget where

"Kingdom of Gwynedd" Wikipedia
The name Gwynedd may derive from Brythonic Ueneda.
which may be akin to Goidelic (ancestor of Irish)
Fenia (which gives fiana, "war-band" in Old Irish -
e.g. Finn and his warriors). Thus the possible meaning
may be "Land of the Hosts" or "Land of the Warrior
Bands".[3]The territory was called Venedotia in
Latin.[4]
Additionally, it is also suggested that Gwynedd is a
mutated form of Cunedda, or Kenneth(a). In Welsh, the
hard c mutates to g, thus Kenneth mutates to Gwyneth,
thus Kenneth's Land
Whatever the exact etymology of the name, a gravestone
from the late 5th century now in Penmachno church
seems to be the earliest record of the name.[1] It is
in memory of a man named Cantiorix and the Latin
inscription is: "Cantiorix hic iacit/Venedotis cives
fuit/consobrinos Magli magistrati", ("Cantiorix lies
here. He was a citizen of Gwynedd and a cousin of
Maglos the magistrate"). [1] The references to
"citizen" and "magistrate" suggest that Roman
institutions may have survived in Gwynedd for a while
after the legions departed. [1]



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