--- tgpedersen <
tgpedersen@...> wrote:
Milograd was
> Baltic, not
> > > > Finnic.****
> > >
> > > Because ... ?
>
> > GK: The material culture is closely related to
> > similar ones north,west,and east, all considered
> > Baltic. It is nearly identical to the Pidhirtsi
> > culture of Ukraine (considered Baltic), it is
> quite
> > different ffrom more northern cultures (like
> Dyakovo)
> > considered Finnic, and it is located in an area of
> > nearly universal Baltic hydronyms (no Finnic
> ones).
> > Milograd/Pidhirtsi was assimilated into Zarubintsi
> and
> > became part of Shchukin's "Bastarnian"
> complex.
>
> Does the manner in which the assimilation took place
> inspire
> confidence that some putative Finnic hydronymics
> would have survived
> (cf Jackson's map of Celtic river names)?
> http://www.yorksj.ac.uk/dialect/celtpn.htm
****GK: I am unaware of any Finnic hydronyms that far
south. But the point about Zarubintsi is this(andthis
has some relevance to your earlier question about
distinctions between Przeworsk, Poeneshti-Lukashovka,
and Zarubintsi. These three are "LaTenized"in the
sense that the key identifying element in them
(compared to eastern forest or steppe cultures) is the
western or "Celtic" object inventory (fibulae types,
ceramic types, weapon types) as well as settlement
patterns, burial types etc.) But the balance between
incoming elements and their interplay with "locals"
varied. Thus: the Yastorf groups were more numerous in
Przeworsk and Poeneshti-Lukashovka than in Zarubintsi.
In the latter, Pomeranian groups seemed to have
"numerically" predominated, though Yastorf was also
present. These Pomeranians are also referred to in the
literature as "Celto-Illyrians" ("Illyrian" being a
stand in for "Venetic"). The C/I left more hydronimic
and toponymic traces in Zarubintsi than the
Yastorfers, as far east as the basin of the river Ros'
south of Kyiv. They may have been political
"Bastarnians" as Shchukin surmises, but the Germanic
element wouldalso have been much weaker. The "locals"
with which these incomers interacted were the Balts of
Milograd and Pidhirtsi, and the "Thrakoid" Scythians
of the Middle Dnipro region. The Pomeranians seemed
numerically preponderant over "locals" in the west,
but Milograd was still more numerous in the center,
and the east was a more or less even mixture of
migrants and locals. Zarubintsi was broken up by
Sarmatian and Aorsan assaults in the mid-1rst c. CE.
As a result, its western component (in the area of the
upper Pripet), largely C/I/Yast. with Milograd
admixture, migrated south to Galicia, where it mixed
with incoming Przeworkers and Dacians.The vacated
territory was subsequently occupied by Welbarkers(a
century later). Central "north Bastarnia" was nearly
wiped out by 50 CE and its population dispersed
towards the north and northeast. Some may have reached
Finnic territories,but most just melted into the
"BaltoSlavic area".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balto-Slavic_languages
As a non-linguist I can't say much about this issue.
But I know of no evidence historical or archaeological
to suggest that the Slavs existed as a distinct group
much earlier than the 1rst c.CE. ****
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