From: Peter P
Message: 57725
Date: 2008-04-20
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "jouppe" <jouppe@...> wrote:
>
> The explanation of SSA is from E.Itkonen 1973.
>
> Itkonen made his suggestion in an atmosphere where repeated attempts
> had failed to explain a supposed substitution of PreAryan **-ks^- =>
> PreF *-ks- for which there are no parallels. Itkonens explanation is
> the construction of a genius in the belief that the quite transparent
> loan etymology was impossible. Itkonens suggestion has despite its
> excellence been critisised as far fetched.
>
> The plausible substitution of the IE original was found independently
> by Asko Parpola and Jorma Koivulehto in 1999 and they published it
> together in Finnish only a year or two before SSA part 3 was
> published.
>
> The innovation was based on:
> 1) Proto-Iranian must have retained the affricate manner of
> articulation longer than the palato-alveolar point of articulation.
> Otherwise the Nuristani pronounciation [ts] would not be possible.
> 2) A thus reconstructed Proto-Iranian alveolar *[ts] could not have
> been substituted by a palato-alveolar c' because Finnic never mixed
> palatalized an non-palatalized sounds. Equally there was no affricate
> *[ts] NORE WAS THERE A SEQUENCE *[ts] in Pre-Finnic at the time.
> Therefore the substitution with /-ks-/ is quite probably the closest,
> and there are parallells for it (see <maksaa> in the file and <paksu>
> in the litterature below).
>
> The etymology was also published by Koivulehto in English in
> Koivulehto, Jorma: Finno-Ugric Reflexes of North-West Indo-European
> and Early Stages of Indo-Iranian. In: K. Jones-Bley, M.E. Huld & A.
> della Volpe (eds.), Proceedings of the Eleventh Annual UCLA Indo-
> European Conference, Los Angeles June 41999 (= The Journal of
> Indo-European Studies; Monograph Series No. 35). Washington, D.C., S.
> 21 on p.36;
> and on page 255 in Carpelan, Christian; Parpola, Asko & Koskikallio,
> Petteri (eds.): Early Contacts between Uralic and Indo-European:
> Linguistic and Archeological Considerations. Helsinki (Mémoires de la
> Societ Finno-Ougrienne *242*) 2001.
>
> SSA must have considered the etymology before publication because it
> has entered into a footnote, without an assessment as to its
> propability.
>
> Jouppe
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Peter P" <roskis@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, cybalist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
> > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the cybalist
> > > group.
> > >
> > > File : /prefinnic vocabulary reconstructed.htm
> > > Uploaded by : jouppe <jouppe@>
> > > Description :
> > Comprehensive List of Archaic Pre-Finnic Lexemes Preserved in
> Finnish
> > >
> > > You can access this file at the URL:
> > >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/files/prefinnic%20vocabulary%
> 20reconstructed.htm
> >
> > >
> > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> > >
> >
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htm
> lfiles
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > jouppe <jouppe@>
> > >
> >
> > It's an interesting and useful list. I have a question about the
> > numbers kahdeksan 8, and yhdeksän, 9. SSA seems to have a slightly
> > different explanation. See message...
> >
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/38422
> >
> > Can you comment further?
> >
> > Peter P
> >
>